Spyderco Sharpmaker vs. Lansky Controlled-Angle Systems

[glbpro]

Hello All,

I've owned a Spyderco Sharpmaker (SM) for three years now and have the diamond rods in addition to the medium and fine rods that come with the SM. My experience with the SM was that it was excellent for maintaining my Spydercos but didn't do other brand knives very well, especially old or worn out knives that needed re-profiling. Basically, if the knife wasn't ground at 30 or 40 degrees inclusive you had an issue. And then, even with the diamond rods the SM didn't have the teeth for serious material removal. So a couple days ago I purchased the Lansky 4-stone diamond system. Here's my take on the two, based on sharpening half a dozen knives over the past two days:

- The Lansky (with the diamond hones) is in a different league to the SM when it comes to re-profiling: I have a knife that belonged to my late father which is ground incredibly thickly at the tip and has always defeated my efforts to thin out in the past. The Lansky dealt with it in 15 minutes - the extra coarse diamond stone just chews into the blade steel (old Japanese 440A in this case) and cuts a perfect bevel.
- Both systems have a learning curve - with the SM it's learning to hold the blade straight up and down and to pitch the knife down/raise the handle so that the flat side of the stone follows the edge as you approach the tip. With the Lansky it's learning to work the tension of the clamp, to position the knife correctly in the clamp and then learning how to support the whole assembly so that the stones do the work and the knife doesn't move around whilst you're working on it. I'd say the SM is actually easier to learn IF your knives have the right angle to begin with (ie are Spydercos).
- The Lansky does not really like FFG knives as they are difficult to clamp firmly - you just do your best and then hold onto the knife handle as you work to steady it in the clamp. The jaws of the Lansky clamp should really be more or less parallel - otherwise the angles are no longer correct. Clearly, with an FFG blade this is an issue! Yes you can clamp on the blade tang but then you have the issue of angle variance at the tip, so pick your poison. Personally I clamp in the middle of the blade and then support the knife with my non-sharpening hand.
- It is MUCH MUCH easier to determine whether you are hitting the apex of the edge on the Lansky because you only sharpen one side at a time and can feel the bur being formed on the other side. There is thus absolutely no doubt as to when you have sharpened every part of the edge. With the SM you have to use the marker trick or some other visual method.
- Neither system likes big knives but the SM can be adapted to pretty much any size knife by varying how you pull the blade through the stones - I've sharpened a 9" Ontario RD9 on my SM! With the Lansky you need to choose which 4" section of the knife to work on, or accept that you're going to have some variance in angle. I sharpened a Becker BK10 (5") quite successfully in one pass, concentrating on the belly and tip.
- The Spyderco can do 15 and 20 degrees per side (dps), the Lansky can do 17, 20, 25 and 30 dps so you can sharpen a Spyderco on the Lansky using the 20 degree setting but cannot back-bevel unless you're willing to accept a change to 17dps.
- I really like having the 30dps setting on the Lansky for outdoor knives that take abuse.
- The finish that you get from the Lansky diamond hones is noticeably different to that from the SM stones - it is a much toothier edge, even when using the 600 grit fine diamond hone. Better for a working knife IMO. I'm going to get one of the Lansky ultra-fine ceramic stones and try that out.
- You can use the SM stones freehand to debur the knife after the final step on the Lansky system. Then strop to scary sharp!
- The standard Lansky stones CANNOT sharpen recurves or serrated knives - the SM will do these easily.
- Both are made in the USA, but IMO the Spyderco feels like a higher quality product - the case that comes with the Lansky is very flimsy IMO and the thumbscrews on the hones don't hold too well. You also have to bend the guide rods until the rod/hone combination lies flat. None of this with the SM - put the stones in and away you go!
- The SM was first produced in 1978, the Lansky system in 1979 so both are time-tested designs (or hopelessly out of date depending on your point of view...)

In conclusion:
- If you own only Spyderco knives and take care of them the SM will probably be enough.
- If you need to reprofile non-Spyderco knives you CAN do it on the SM with the diamond rods but it will take a long time and the results will not be as good as on the Lansky, especially near the tip.
- The Lansky diamond system is a very good compliment to the SM - it sort of takes over where the latter leaves off.
- Neither system will guarantee you an absolutely consistent angle from heel to tip - in order to achieve that you need something like an Edge Pro Apex, which has its own learning curve. However both systems WILL give you scary sharp knives if used correctly!

Regards,
Bruno

[aesmith]

One point to add is that the actual angles created by the Lansky kit are significantly different from the nominal 17, 20, 25 etc. The actual angles depend on blade thickness and width but for example a 2mm thick blade that protrudes 15mm from the clamp gives the following angles - 13, 18, 22, 25. I bought the Lansky first, but since I got the Sharpmaker the Lansky is pretty much only used for a new knife to get the bevel into shape. All actual sharpening is now done on the SM. I think they work well together, but if I was starting again I'd have got the Lansky diamond stones instead of the the 5 stone "deluxe" set.

On my wish list for the Sharpmaker would be the ability to go lower than 30 degrees. I have a few knives that get sharpened at 30, and the SM gives no way to back bevel these. Some day I'll make a base with something like a 25 degree included angle.

[glbpro]

One point to add is that the actual angles created by the Lansky kit are significantly different from the nominal 17, 20, 25 etc. The actual angles depend on blade thickness and width but for example a 2mm thick blade that protrudes 15mm from the clamp gives the following angles - 13, 18, 22, 25.

Absolutely - that's why in the manual Lansky state that the jaws of the clamp should be parallel or nearly parallel and the blade should protrude 5/8" or 15mm from the front edge of the clamp. Any variation from this and the angle will not be as stated.

Fortunately the actual angle doesn't matter when it comes to getting the knife sharp!!! Which is why the Lansky is such a great re-profiling and repair tool as opposed to a maintenance tool.

On my wish list for the Sharpmaker would be the ability to go lower than 30 degrees. I have a few knives that get sharpened at 30, and the SM gives no way to back bevel these. Some day I'll make a base with something like a 25 degree included angle.

Guys on this forum have devised various methods for tilting the sharpmaker base in order to get the desired angle - once you work out the maths it's pretty simple to do.

Bruno

[Evil D]

I could write a book on the pros and cons of the Lansky system but I'm on my phone so that'll wait until later. The main problem with the Lansky is the clamp itself. You will immediately see the problem when you go to sharpen a knife that you've already profiled, when you try to match up exactly where you were clamped the last time. This can get really frustrating really fast. The position of the clamp has absolute impact on what the final angle is, and everything from the width and thickness of the blade and the curve of the belly will impact the actual angle. You won't have these issues on the Sharpmaker.

I used mine so much that I eventually wore the angle slot to the point that it was hitting the bevel at a lower angle, and there was nothing I could do about it except buy a new clamp. I also had issues with the screws on the clamp and stripped the threads right out of the clamp from trying to get knives in there tight enough that they wouldn't wiggle. I had issues with the screws sticking up too high and the stones hitting them and with the stones hitting the edge of the clamp itself (you'll run into this with narrow blades).

Probably the biggest headache I had was with the stones themselves. The diamond stones eventually wear out and lose their bite, and none of the other stones ever came flat, so I had to spend time lapping the crap out of them to get them flat. Then once you've lapped them, the thickness has changed enough to change the angle that the stone hits the bevel at, but there's nothing you can do to compensate for it so you end up with uneven lines in your bevel when going from one stone to the next. This made polishing a bevel a real PITA because I had to reposition the clamp for each stone.

Then beyond all that, all that repositioning of the clamp leads to scratching up your blade and you end up with clamp marks on your blades. Try to tape them up and you lose clamping security and your blade wiggles.

In the end after spending well over $200 on the initial purchase and subsequent stone additions and replacement clamps, I got sick of the whole thing and bought an Edge Pro. The Lansky is decent for what it does but to really get the most out of it you'll be spending EP money in the long run. Keep in mind that these issues were found over several years of working with the Lansky so just because you haven't ran into them yet doesn't mean you won't.

[aesmith]

I... Then once you've lapped them, the thickness has changed enough to change the angle that the stone hits the bevel at, but there's nothing you can do to compensate for it ...

Surely you just adjust the position of the rod, same as you would do when first assembling? As another side not I set my Lansky hones so the rod is ever so slightly offset between the grits, so that the angle gets just a touch steeper as the grit gets finer. Theoretically the rods could be offset as needed to get any desired angle, although clearly that would be extremely fiddly.

[bearfacedkiller]

Good post and thanks for taking the time to share it.

I prefer the Sharpmaker in every way. I find many many faults with the Lansky. I remember when the Lansky came out when I was a kid and I thought it was the greatest thing. Now, not so much. I can reprofile S110V without issue on the sharpmaker diamond rods and I can produce very even bevels from heal to tip with it. The angles available on the Lansky are inadequate. What would you need 30 dps for? I wouldn't run an axe that obtuse. I run my heavy choppers at 15dps. Even if the Lansky did do acute angles I wouldn't use it. When I was a kid it was great for sharpening my SAKs and me and my whole Boy Scout troop loved it. I lost it in a move many years ago and have no interest in replacing it.

[bearfacedkiller]

I have reprofiled many knives down under 30 degrees on the Sharpmaker by using a fulcrum under the base. I'll post a pic later. My SB Delica is around 20 degrees.

[JD Spydo]

I tend to agree with "Bearfacedkiller" & "Evil D">> I still own and use some of the Lansky sharpening tools I've had over the years but overall I find Spyderco's abrasive tools to work much more uniformly and consistent. The 204 Sharpmaker is my main "go-to" sharpener if I want to tune up an edge. Now Lansky does have a few Specialty type sharpening tools that I find to be quite handy at times but again I've had better results overall using many of Spyderco's sharpening tools.

At this time I'm still wondering which high end sharpening system I'm going to get and I'm speaking of Edge Pro versus Wicked Edge. But for a kit sharpener I'm still waving the flag for the Sharpmaker. But I'm always willing to try out new items as well.

Lansky has been around for several years and they undoubtedly have a faithful following. The one big issue I have at this time with Spyderco's 204 Sharpmaker is that they don't offer any coarse or extra coarse rods which would come in extremely handy for a lot of the work I do.

[farnorthdan]

I gave up on the Lansky years ago, just could not get their clamping system to work for me, could never get the blade positioned consistently and small blades were impossible. Also when tightening down on certain blades the pressure from the clamp would make the blade shift off center. I eventually went with the Edge Pro as a fixed system and have been very happy with it for setting bevels and repairing edges. My SM gets most of the action these days once a bevel has been set.

[JD Spydo]

This is an interesting thread and I'm not meaning to derail it in any way>> but being the one common complaint that arises with the Lansky system I would like to make a suggestion to you all. There is a company out of Ely, Minnesota known as "Razor Edge Systems">> they used to be my favorite sharpening tool company until I got to using Spyderco stuff much more. But there is one item that might be helpful to you all and that is the clamping/sharpening guides that Razor Edge sells for holding folders and fixed blades at an exact angle.

When I'm freehanding with Spyderco 302 Benchstones I use them to hold my knives at an exact angle with great success ( particularly on fixed blades). I've heard people in the past complain about Lansky's clamping system on their sharpening kits and it seems like they would have remedied that by now :confused:

Also I find Lansky's ceramic sharpening tools much harder to clean than Spyderco's for what it's worth.

[civicrr]

Thanks for the informative thread & posts.

[Evil D]

I... Then once you've lapped them, the thickness has changed enough to change the angle that the stone hits the bevel at, but there's nothing you can do to compensate for it ...

Surely you just adjust the position of the rod, same as you would do when first assembling? As another side not I set my Lansky hones so the rod is ever so slightly offset between the grits, so that the angle gets just a touch steeper as the grit gets finer. Theoretically the rods could be offset as needed to get any desired angle, although clearly that would be extremely fiddly.

It's not quite that simple. The rods feed through the angle holes which can't be adjusted. When you lap a stone, there's no telling how much you take off and how that changes the angle. You can't simply change rod holes and correct the angle because it's not going to be exactly X degrees or however many there are between slots. The only way to compensate for stone thickness is to adjust where the blade is in the clamp, which is doable but it's a huge hassle to tweak the blade just right and hit the right angle. I've made it work but again I had spent Edge Pro money on a system that wasn't near as good as the Edge Pro and I got tired of having to make it work.

Wait until you run into a knife that has a dagger ground blade or a large swedge in the spine like the Breedon Rescue. Some of those knives just won't work with clamps. Then I would try to sharpen chef's knives on it and get more frustrated because of the length issue. It's just more trouble than it's worth unless you only use run of the mill knives with shapes that work well with the clamp. If you only carry a saber ground Delica and you don't care about polishing bevels and all you want is a sharp edge, you'll probably have far less issues.

[Larry_Mott]

I own the Triangle Sharpmaker and consider getting a setup better suited for reprofiling/getting nicks out, but i have my eyes on the KME which to me seems like a good compromise between the Lansky, which i find too rickety budget and the Wicked edge that simply cost too much to justify buying (for me)
Any KME owners/user out there who'd care to chime in?

[aesmith]

I... Then once you've lapped them, the thickness has changed enough to change the angle that the stone hits the bevel at, but there's nothing you can do to compensate for it ...

Surely you just adjust the position of the rod, same as you would do when first assembling?...

It's not quite that simple. The rods feed through the angle holes which can't be adjusted.

Sorry, what I mean is when you fit the rod onto the hone you adjust it so the bottom of the rod is flush with the bottom of the abrasive. If you lap the abrasive making the hone thinner, you can slacken the screw and reposition the rod so it's flush with the new surface.

[Evil D]

I... Then once you've lapped them, the thickness has changed enough to change the angle that the stone hits the bevel at, but there's nothing you can do to compensate for it ...

Surely you just adjust the position of the rod, same as you would do when first assembling?...

It's not quite that simple. The rods feed through the angle holes which can't be adjusted.

Sorry, what I mean is when you fit the rod onto the hone you adjust it so the bottom of the rod is flush with the bottom of the abrasive. If you lap the abrasive making the hone thinner, you can slacken the screw and reposition the rod so it's flush with the new surface.

I'm lost, not sure what you mean. Sounds like you're saying the stones are adjustable inside their holder?

[aesmith]

The stones are fixed in the holders, but the rod is adjustable with respect to the holder (and therefore wrt the surface of the stone)

[Evil D]

The stones are fixed in the holders, but the rod is adjustable with respect to the holder (and therefore wrt the surface of the stone)

Ok yeah, now that you mention it I do remember laying them on a flat surface to line all that up. It's been a few years since I used one. Still, that's one issue out of many that I got sick of fiddling with :p

[spydorinox]

I have both the Lansky and SM. I had been using the Lansky for setting bevels/reprofiling, but the other day the clamp stripped so I can't use it any more. I found that the DMT Aligner hones work well with the Lansky. Overall the Lansky has a lot of annoying issues like the clamp positioning, using it on FFG blades, bending the rods, like others have said. The Sharpmaker is better but is not that great at reprofiling even with the diamond stones. Maybe I'll try an Edge Pro next.

[ShaneInDenver]

I also have the SM and diamond rods along with the Lansky system. I've had the diamond rods on the SM for a few weeks now and they have helped me out a lot and save a bunch of time, but I'm still working on keeping my knife perfectly straight and getting my bevel super even. I'm close, but it's not perfect.

I don't like the Lansky system. I'm probably not using it right, but after reprofiling on the Lansky at 30 degrees it doesn't match the same angle on the SM. I suspect this has to do with how much of the blade is sticking up out of the clamp. Also my Lansky stones are not even anymore, you can feel divots in them and I don't know how to make them flat again.

I would love for my knives to be sharp enough to split hairs, but I find I just lack the technique to get them there. I find it frustrating, because people say you just have to keep practicing. Well, I've been practicing for years now and while I've gotten a little better, I'm still not to where I think I should be. I've watched YouTube videos, I use a sharpie, but still have some knives that are scary sharp and others that can barely cut paper. My fear is that when I practice I'm really just practicing the wrong technique over and over and thus getting the same poor, inconsistent results.

I too have been thinking about picking up a Edge Pro Apex system, but will that really solve my problems? I've spent a good amount of time and money collecting knives, but I still find the sharpening process to be extremely hard and difficult. I find myself questioning the fact that I have really nice knives with amazing steel that I can't sharpen. What's the point of edge retention if I can't put an edge on something?

I'm frustrated and I don't want to give up, I know one day I'll get this sharpening thing figure out. How has everyone here perfected their sharpening skills? I would love all the advice you're willing to give.

[Brock O Lee]

I gave up on the Lansky years ago, just could not get their clamping system to work for me, could never get the blade positioned consistently and small blades were impossible. Also when tightening down on certain blades the pressure from the clamp would make the blade shift off center. I eventually went with the Edge Pro as a fixed system and have been very happy with it for setting bevels and repairing edges. My SM gets most of the action these days once a bevel has been set.

Same here. The Lansky was my first angle sharpening system, and I had high hopes for it. I soon discovered that it had serious flaws. One day I just got fed-up and bought an Edge Pro and Sharpmaker, and later DMT stones.