New KW Military in CTS-204P
Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
For those interested in some real world cutting action, here's a fun test I did yesterday.
I had a bunch of old CAT5 and CAT5-E patch cables lying around the NOC (Network Operations Center) at work, and decided I would be environmentally friendly and cut it up in pieces before trashing it. I heard you aren't supposed to put fishing line in the trash because some stray animal might get caught in it while they're scavenging around the city dump and die. So I figured I should be compassionate to said animals and cut up these patch cables as well. Ok, maybe it's a stretch, but it gave me an excuse to see what 204p is all about.
I should have taken a "before" picture, but I forgot. There were probably 50-60 ~7ft cables in all, maybe more. I didn't count. For those who aren't computer geeks like me, patch cables are made from 4 twisted pairs of copper wire. So 8 small copper wires per cable. I cut them up into 10-12 inch pieces, and tried to alternate using the top, middle, and bottom portions of the blade. I did a little bit of slicing, but found that to be more difficult. So most of the cuts were push cuts. I found it much easier to do at about a 45 degree angle, similar to cardboard. I also found that some of the cables were considerably tougher to cut than others. The knife zipped right through most of them, but I had to really bear down on a few. All in all it took me about 30 minutes or so. Now onto the pics...
I was expecting considerable edge deformation, either chipping or rolling, but I saw very little of either. There were some very minor deformations in certain sections, but very difficult to see. The most obvious is toward the middle of the blade (still difficult to see). Overall the steel held up surprisingly well. I was actually quite shocked. With the way some people talk about high vanadium steels lacking toughness, I half expect the blade to snap after the first cut. :) I jest, but I did expect to see more damage.
The knife would still clean slice copy paper when I was done. I could even rough shave with most of the edge. It snagged a few times when the paper caught on the damaged section of the blade, but it still retained a very nice working edge.
When I got home I thought surely I'd have to at least touch it up on the Sharpmaker browns, if not take it to the diamonds. However, after about 10 passes on black compound and another 10 on white using my leather strop, I was back to easily shaving arm hair. There are still a few deformed places on the edge and it's not hair popping, but it's more than satisfactory for my uses.
Some things I learned:
- 204p is great stuff. Much tougher than I initially thought.
- A 68 degree NOC on a 90 degree Vermont Summer day is a wonderful place to be.
- Being environmentally friendly is fun.
- Not all patch cables are created equal.
- The Military has some hotspots for me when cutting. Mainly at the butt of the handle on my pinky finger.
- I prefer closed back construction for heavy cutting.
- Did I mention how great 204p is?!
- Next time I do something like this I'll wear gloves.
- I have a new appreciation for Ankerson's cardboard tests.
I had a bunch of old CAT5 and CAT5-E patch cables lying around the NOC (Network Operations Center) at work, and decided I would be environmentally friendly and cut it up in pieces before trashing it. I heard you aren't supposed to put fishing line in the trash because some stray animal might get caught in it while they're scavenging around the city dump and die. So I figured I should be compassionate to said animals and cut up these patch cables as well. Ok, maybe it's a stretch, but it gave me an excuse to see what 204p is all about.
I should have taken a "before" picture, but I forgot. There were probably 50-60 ~7ft cables in all, maybe more. I didn't count. For those who aren't computer geeks like me, patch cables are made from 4 twisted pairs of copper wire. So 8 small copper wires per cable. I cut them up into 10-12 inch pieces, and tried to alternate using the top, middle, and bottom portions of the blade. I did a little bit of slicing, but found that to be more difficult. So most of the cuts were push cuts. I found it much easier to do at about a 45 degree angle, similar to cardboard. I also found that some of the cables were considerably tougher to cut than others. The knife zipped right through most of them, but I had to really bear down on a few. All in all it took me about 30 minutes or so. Now onto the pics...
I was expecting considerable edge deformation, either chipping or rolling, but I saw very little of either. There were some very minor deformations in certain sections, but very difficult to see. The most obvious is toward the middle of the blade (still difficult to see). Overall the steel held up surprisingly well. I was actually quite shocked. With the way some people talk about high vanadium steels lacking toughness, I half expect the blade to snap after the first cut. :) I jest, but I did expect to see more damage.
The knife would still clean slice copy paper when I was done. I could even rough shave with most of the edge. It snagged a few times when the paper caught on the damaged section of the blade, but it still retained a very nice working edge.
When I got home I thought surely I'd have to at least touch it up on the Sharpmaker browns, if not take it to the diamonds. However, after about 10 passes on black compound and another 10 on white using my leather strop, I was back to easily shaving arm hair. There are still a few deformed places on the edge and it's not hair popping, but it's more than satisfactory for my uses.
Some things I learned:
- 204p is great stuff. Much tougher than I initially thought.
- A 68 degree NOC on a 90 degree Vermont Summer day is a wonderful place to be.
- Being environmentally friendly is fun.
- Not all patch cables are created equal.
- The Military has some hotspots for me when cutting. Mainly at the butt of the handle on my pinky finger.
- I prefer closed back construction for heavy cutting.
- Did I mention how great 204p is?!
- Next time I do something like this I'll wear gloves.
- I have a new appreciation for Ankerson's cardboard tests.
Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
Great post! Thank you!
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Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
In my humble opinion, neither the Southard or Domino really do CTS-204P justice. But man does it shine in the new Military!
Don't get me wrong, both Southard and Domino are incredible pieces in their own right.
Don't get me wrong, both Southard and Domino are incredible pieces in their own right.
Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
It's really amazing what happens when a lot of these steels are actually used in knives with good geometry and HT like Spyderco does.
Reality starts to creep in slowly and after some time the urban legends and other assorted complete garbage that some like to push is forgotten. :spyder:
Then they can just use the knives and enjoy. :cool:
That is what I like to see personally, people getting enjoyment out of these knives. :spyder:
Reality starts to creep in slowly and after some time the urban legends and other assorted complete garbage that some like to push is forgotten. :spyder:
Then they can just use the knives and enjoy. :cool:
That is what I like to see personally, people getting enjoyment out of these knives. :spyder:
Last edited by Ankerson on Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
Hey Jim,Ankerson wrote:It's really amazing what happens when a lot of these steels are actually used in knives with good geometry and HT like Spyderco does.
Reality starts to creep in slowly and after some time the urban legends and other assorted complete garbage that some like to push is forgotten. :spyder:
Then they can just use the knives and enjoy. :cool:
Now that you tested the S110V Milie, was there much difference between it and the 204P? Like in the linear feet of cardboard cut or whatever might have stood out to you...or is Category 1 for both 'nuff said?
Mark
- Mark
"Don't believe everything you think." -anonymous wise man
"Don't believe everything you think." -anonymous wise man
Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
Didn't test the 204P Military so I really can't say on that knife, but there is a large difference between the M390 class of steels and S110V performance wise.mb1 wrote:Hey Jim,Ankerson wrote:It's really amazing what happens when a lot of these steels are actually used in knives with good geometry and HT like Spyderco does.
Reality starts to creep in slowly and after some time the urban legends and other assorted complete garbage that some like to push is forgotten. :spyder:
Then they can just use the knives and enjoy. :cool:
Now that you tested the S110V Milie, was there much difference between it and the 204P? Like in the linear feet of cardboard cut or whatever might have stood out to you...or is Category 1 for both 'nuff said?
Mark
I had to make a choice on what one knife I wanted out of the S110V, 204P, 52100, M4 etc knives that all came out all around the same time.
I chose the S110V Military and don't regret it one bit. :cool:
On the cardboard question I normally stop when the knives start to loose phone book paper sharpness except on some like I tested lately like the S110V Military and S125V custom that would have just kept going on and on for a very long time after I stopped. Some of these steels will really cut for a VERY long time and maintain phone book paper sharpness so I have to keep it reasonable.
Jim
Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
Ah, thanks. It was the S90V Milie and the 204P Para 2 in your Cat 1 group. So many knives!
- Mark
"Don't believe everything you think." -anonymous wise man
"Don't believe everything you think." -anonymous wise man
Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
mb1 wrote:Ah, thanks. It was the S90V Milie and the 204P Para 2 in your Cat 1 group. So many knives!
Stopped doing the polished edge testing a long time ago.
Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
ejames13 wrote:
I was expecting considerable edge deformation, either chipping or rolling, but I saw very little of either. There were some very minor deformations in certain sections, but very difficult to see. The most obvious is toward the middle of the blade (still difficult to see). Overall the steel held up surprisingly well. I was actually quite shocked. With the way some people talk about high vanadium steels lacking toughness, I half expect the blade to snap after the first cut. :) I jest, but I did expect to see more damage.
Learning is a very good thing. :spyder:
It's kinda of an inside joke with some of us say......
"Man I just broke that knife cutting marshmallows" :D
To listen to some talk and would love people to believe that isn't that far off.
Spyderco knows what they are doing, they spec out the knives for the intended use and test them before they are released. :)
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Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
Yes sir :spyder:Ankerson wrote:It's really amazing what happens when a lot of these steels are actually used in knives with good geometry and HT like Spyderco does.
Reality starts to creep in slowly and after some time the urban legends and other assorted complete garbage that some like to push is forgotten. :spyder:
Then they can just use the knives and enjoy. :cool:
That is what I like to see personally, people getting enjoyment out of these knives. :spyder:
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Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
That's why I said it was great for a pocket knife!Mikael Andersson wrote:Perhaps... but I would avoid 20CV in any fixed blade knife due to it's somewhat poor toughness.animportant wrote:I have read toughness isn't amazing but from what I read it sounded more like 3/5 toughness 4.5/5 corrosion 4.5/5 wear resistance .. seems like the perfect steel for a pocket knife to me. I could never abuse my folders, I need a reason to carry fixed blades! :)Mikael Andersson wrote:Aha but what surprised me about 20CV is that according to Benchmade it's toughness is only one and a half stars out of five (?) stars.animportant wrote:I believe the 204p, m390, 20cv family is more rust resistant. I know carbide structure alone isn't enough to determine corrosion resistance but it's a big part of it. 204p is 20% chromium, s90v and s110v are ~15%. Stainless knives typically start at 13%.Mikael Andersson wrote:CTS-204P less rust resistant than S110V?
Some other steel junkies on the forum know a bit more than I do about how different steel processes allow more chromium to be free to protect against rust and hopefully they'll weigh in.
Adding that Crucible states that s110v is a bit more corrosion resistant than s90v. With very similar chromium content it must come down to process.
I'm not a steel guru but I'm surprised we don't see more fixed blades in s30v and s35vn around 58-60 Rockwell. To me that would make the most sense as an all around tough, wear, and rust resistant fixed blade that could be beat on a bit. Probably a topic for a new thread but what stainless steels do you guys think make the most sense? If some people like the topic let me know and I'll start that thread. Not right to derail this thread.
Last edited by animportant on Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
Edit - Shouldn't be foruming at 330 in the morning
Last edited by animportant on Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
Edit - Ditto^ ...sorry about this lol :confused:
Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
I dont wanna start a thread just to ask one question .........so
I have a framelock Military and a Liner lock military ........ are the blades interchangeable ??
Meaning .....can I put my S110V blade Blue G-10..... in my M-4 Framelock handle ????
I have a framelock Military and a Liner lock military ........ are the blades interchangeable ??
Meaning .....can I put my S110V blade Blue G-10..... in my M-4 Framelock handle ????
- RadioactiveSpyder
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Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
DJ, so there are multiple answers depending on the specific models being swapped...DJ wrote:I dont wanna start a thread just to ask one question .........so
I have a framelock Military and a Liner lock military ........ are the blades interchangeable ??
Meaning .....can I put my S110V blade Blue G-10..... in my M-4 Framelock handle ????
For original (pre-recent CQI changes) Military models including the stock S30V G10s (all flavors), Ti and fluted Ti, and sprints/exclusives prior to the S90V BBS model (ending at Cruwear I believe), blades are freely swappable. There may or may not be issues with the lockbars mating properly if those aren't also swapped with their respective blades. I've had no issues personally swapping several different blades into the Ti (including my M4 Ti/G10) and fluted Ti frames and having the Ti lockbars lock up securely.
Now, the tricky part comes swapping the new CQI'd blades with the stepped pivots into the Ti frames. The pivot mechanisms on the new CQI models are NOT the same diameter, they are slightly bigger (sorry, I didn't measure them with my calipers).
That said, I did successfully swap my S110V blade into a fluted Ti frame by swapping the pivot screw as well. The D-shaped side of the pivot did not immediately fit into the D-shaped slot in the Ti frame, but some (ahem) "gentle" and "guided" tamping seemed to make it snuggle up into the frame just fine. Make sure you put the washer on first - it is a stepped pivot! The other side didn't seem to have any issue.
For the S30V blade going into the blurple S110V frame, the only minor mod was to lightly file the G10 scale open a bit in the pivot hole itself on the clip side since the D-shaped pivot has to now go back in reversed from the stock orientation (I filed it until it was as large as the opening on the clip itself). So the screw side of the pivot is now on the presentation side of the scale versus having the hole-less side there. These pics should help:
Lockup was great on both blades after the swap, and the only minor issue was the S30V blade was slightly off-center in the new blurple frame.
It was a fun evening project last week, giving me the grail knife I wanted since I heard Sal was making a S110V Millie! :D (I've already sold off the blurple one, still no fan of that color ). Here it is posing for a portrait:
I assume that swapping the 204P or 52100 blades (and likely the BBS S90V one) would be the same since they all have the same larger pivot. Hope that helps! Cheers, Radioactive :)
It's better to be good than evil, but one achieves goodness at a terrific cost. ––– Stephen King
Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
Thank you very much ..............Iam gonna try an M-4 Titanium into my S110V Blurple .........lol
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Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
Lol......there ya go DJ.
Ask, and you shall receive :D
Ask, and you shall receive :D
Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
The more I use the KWMilitary the better I like it! What a great knife and a fantastic balance of properties in 204P.
it got some light machete duty this weekend on basswood saplings and burdock around the yard, if you grip just the butt of the handle it gives some great blade speed and a little extra reach. The blade has had one touch-up since I bought it, which was just to bring it up to a better polished edge than factory, so far it still shaves. :D
it got some light machete duty this weekend on basswood saplings and burdock around the yard, if you grip just the butt of the handle it gives some great blade speed and a little extra reach. The blade has had one touch-up since I bought it, which was just to bring it up to a better polished edge than factory, so far it still shaves. :D
-David
still more knives than sharpening stones...
still more knives than sharpening stones...
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Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
204P is an excellent steel, no doubt about it. :cool:awa54 wrote:The more I use the KWMilitary the better I like it! What a great knife and a fantastic balance of properties in 204P.
it got some light machete duty this weekend on basswood saplings and burdock around the yard, if you grip just the butt of the handle it gives some great blade speed and a little extra reach. The blade has had one touch-up since I bought it, which was just to bring it up to a better polished edge than factory, so far it still shaves. :D
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Re: New KW Military in CTS-204P
My 204P Military enters the fray, after a 5 week trek from Louisiana...
I had an anxious week, where I thought it might have gone MIA in the post. Our local post office agent could not find it anywhere in the system and was not hopeful. I am really pleased that it decided to show up today!
I had an anxious week, where I thought it might have gone MIA in the post. Our local post office agent could not find it anywhere in the system and was not hopeful. I am really pleased that it decided to show up today!
Hans
Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi
Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi