Sal, what are the chances for a AEB-L spydie ?

[archangel]

I might be buying an Urban for my wifey. Not breaking my rule.

[Gsg9]

An Urban?

sal

Yes please, an Urban would be great, I love my K390

[tvenuto]

I think the delica is a great platform, as I prefer a lock. But I wouldn't turn down an urban. Wharnie urban ground thin to take advantage of the toughness?

[elena86]

An Urban?

sal

YES SIR ! I'd buy at least three for me and a few for my friends :cool:. Keep it in the lightweight configuration with a coloured frn scale please ! Powdered blue or foliage green would be awesome :spyder:

[The Meat man]

I think the delica is a great platform, as I prefer a lock. But I wouldn't turn down an urban. Wharnie urban ground thin to take advantage of the toughness?

I like the delica idea too, although the urban would be great as well.

Either way, I'd definitely like to see the blade ground thinner than usual if at all possible.

[sal]

Hi Citori,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[Ankerson]

I know that Sal will need convincing that AEB-L is what some folk claim it is.
A raft load of coin will need to be spent on the project, whether it is for straight or bendy knives.

The "super steels" have made folk discard the usefullness of the older steels, in their own minds, at least.
The bigger, better, faster, more crowd.

I have had limited use of AEB-L, and I am convinced that it is will do everything I want in a knife, for the things that I need a knife for.
It is not the bestest of all, not the toughest of all, but if I was limited to using and owning all sorts of knives that were made of just one steel, I would be more than happy with AEB-L.

I am no one of consequence, and it is merely my opinion, but it is based on what I know of the capabilities of AEB-L.

Hi Stuart,

I don't think that's it. (At least not for me anyway)

There are quite a few GOOD steels that aren't considered super steels around that get used, a lot of them have been around for a long time too and are still used in knives. (Production)

I still use an SAK now and then as an example, I always have 2 or 3 around and have all my life.

Buck still uses 420HC.

But then 8Cr13MoV they use in the Byrd line is actually better than AEB-L so I suppose we will see.


Jim

[Nate]

An Urban sounds great!

[Some1]

I'd vote for a Nilakka with AEBL at 62 with the original zero grind that S30V failed at. Give people a huge reason to talk and shake some things up a little in the knife world and a reason to consider something other than the most expensive steels on the market...

[wrdwrght]

I don't hunger for AEB-L but would give it a go just because I have not tried it. I understand AEB-L to have somewhat better edge-retention and toughness than VG10, if somewhat less corrosion-resistance. I could make that work.

[Some1]

I don't hunger for AEB-L but would give it a go just because I have not tried it. I understand AEB-L to have somewhat better edge-retention and toughness than VG10, if somewhat less corrosion-resistance. I could make that work.

Define the variables that lead to dulling and you'll be correct if the situation is favorable.

Make the AEBL blade in a way that doesn't highlight its strengths and it'd probably be worse than VG10.

S110V is great if made right. Take the edge really thin and it sucks. AEBL is great if it's made right. Keep it thick with a 15 or 20 degree per side bevel and you'll probably like other steels better.

[dj moonbat]

I don't hunger for AEB-L but would give it a go just because I have not tried it. I understand AEB-L to have somewhat better edge-retention and toughness than VG10, if somewhat less corrosion-resistance. I could make that work.

Define the variables that lead to dulling and you'll be correct if the situation is favorable.

Make the AEBL blade in a way that doesn't highlight its strengths and it'd probably be worse than VG10.

S110V is great if made right. Take the edge really thin and it sucks. AEBL is great if it's made right. Keep it thick with a 15 or 20 degree per side bevel and you'll probably like other steels better.

"Edge retention" is really not the most helpful term. AEB-L and its brethren will do a great job keeping an edge from failing, and a less-great job keeping it from eroding.

If you want to make a pocket knife with AEB-L, make it a Chaparral lightweight sprint. That 2mm blade stock is the thinnest y'all make, right Sal?

[tvenuto]

"Edge retention" is really not the most helpful term. AEB-L and its brethren will do a great job keeping an edge from failing, and a less-great job keeping it from eroding.

If you want to make a pocket knife with AEB-L, make it a Chaparral lightweight sprint. That 2mm blade stock is the thinnest y'all make, right Sal?

This is a good thought if Spyderco is unwilling to change up the grind geometry on a particular design. As mentioned this steel would enable a thinner geometry and that's where it would shine. At a geometry where VG-10 is stable (and where very high corrosion resistance wasn't needed) it would likely outshine AEB-L in time between sharpening. However, it does seem that spyderco is willing to play with geometry when it suits them. Again I have no link to show this, but I do seem to remember Sal saying that the Hap40 delicas were ground slightly thinner to take advantage of the steel. This is the best I could do, Hap40 vs VG-10:



It does appear to me that the hap40 version is thinner, I know it's hard to see. Anyway, a thinly ground AEB-L delica (or urban, or chap) would be awesome.

[Some1]

"Edge retention" is really not the most helpful term. AEB-L and its brethren will do a great job keeping an edge from failing, and a less-great job keeping it from eroding.

If you want to make a pocket knife with AEB-L, make it a Chaparral lightweight sprint. That 2mm blade stock is the thinnest y'all make, right Sal?

This is a good thought if Spyderco is unwilling to change up the grind geometry on a particular design. As mentioned this steel would enable a thinner geometry and that's where it would shine. At a geometry where VG-10 is stable (and where very high corrosion resistance wasn't needed) it would likely outshine AEB-L in time between sharpening. However, it does seem that spyderco is willing to play with geometry when it suits them. Again I have no link to show this, but I do seem to remember Sal saying that the Hap40 delicas were ground slightly thinner to take advantage of the steel. This is the best I could do, Hap40 vs VG-10:



It does appear to me that the hap40 version is thinner, I know it's hard to see. Anyway, a thinly ground AEB-L delica (or urban, or chap) would be awesome.

They can do it, it's whether their bureaucrats tell them it's unwise to do so.


Look at the pattada. A ton of people say they'd buy one but it came in a steel they absolutely did not want. So they kept asking for K390 and M390. A LOT of people. Sal just said that the original, which no one wanted N690, was a slow seller so they can't afford to manufacture the knife the way A LOT of people have said they wanted it. This is after a meeting with their bean counters who, right or wrong, only care about liability and losing money. Doesn't matter that A LOT of people have said they want a pattada but absolutely not in N690 and that the steel choice matters a great deal to them in a knife like that.

Same thing applies to really thin, really tough, really hard knives. They'll play it safe to theoretically save the company when playing it safe is actually holding them back.

Of course, I'm saying this without money on the line.

A really, thin...like almost stupid thin...really hard AEBL knife sharpened at about 10DPS, or even less, would sell.

A K390 Pattada would sell.

But they base these declinations on previous sales volume of the same models configured how no one really wanted them.

But they'll make a Jot Singh Khalsa that is really kind of retarded for any normal person and a Tropen with obvious safety issues and make a huge deal about disassembly warranty issues and ignore bad ball bearing pivot designs.

Bean counters made those decisions. Not knife afis.

Why didn't they change the grind on the Nirvana? People wanted it but it cut like crap and everyone knew it. Why didn't they just change the damned grind? These things perplex me.

Look at the mule team. People would absolutely jump on some kind of folder that could handle repetitive blade swaps. I don't think having a locking mechanism even matters that much. But they WILL NOT adjust their mule team to incorporate this new idea. The bean counters and lawyers tell them no so the brass says no. Doesn't matter that doing this would absolutely reinvigorate some ideas.

[tvenuto]

Some fair points made, but honest question: do you make/design physical things for a living? (Not doing this for a living doesn’t invalidate your comments, but doing so would certainly give you some perspective on the myriad factors involved.)

Although your observations on the outcomes of the decisions might be valid, it’s a bit presumptuous to assume you know how the decisions were made and who made them and why. Often compromises must be made to get something built at all, and things that may outwardly be perplexing actually have sound reasoning behind them. We have to remember that we dont have all the info.

Spyderco (Sal) is interacting with us on this one, like he has many times in the past. Perhaps we shouldn’t jump to conclusions on what they will or won’t be willing to do based on a few perceived missteps.

[Some1]

Some fair points made, but honest question: do you make/design physical things for a living? (Not doing this for a living doesn’t invalidate your comments, but doing so would certainly give you some perspective on the myriad factors involved.)

Although your observations on the outcomes of the decisions might be valid, it’s a bit presumptuous to assume you know how the decisions were made and who made them and why. Often compromises must be made to get something built at all, and things that may outwardly be perplexing actually have sound reasoning behind them. We have to remember that we dont have all the info.

Spyderco (Sal) is interacting with us on this one, like he has many times in the past. Perhaps we shouldn’t jump to conclusions on what they will or won’t be willing to do based on a few perceived missteps.

I do not design/engineer/count beans for a living. I know it's something necessary that's why i tempered my statement the best i could. Doesn't mean that they're correct from a community standpoint, but I'm sure they're right from a "save their own ***" standpoint

[fanglekai]

I'm in for at least one of whatever model as long as it has thin stock, is ground thin behind the edge, and is at least somewhat lefty friendly. I can't do regular right-handed compression locks, but pretty much anything else works for me.

[The Meat man]

I'm thinking an Urban would probably make the most sense for a European steel. It would also be available to more people, being a non-locking small folder.

[wrdwrght]

their bureaucrats

This phrasing puzzles me. How big do you suppose Spyderco to be? Sal and Eric aren't in charge?

[Some1]

their bureaucrats

This phrasing puzzles me. How big do you suppose Spyderco to be? Sal and Eric aren't in charge?

When bureaucrats and bean counters are involved only they are in charge regardless of who says they have the final decision.