An idea for those with blade length laws

[Evil D]

I don't have much investment in this topic as I don't have a length law and my concealed carry permit allows me to carry a sword if I can conceal it. But, I got this idea while reading another thread.

For those who have length laws, are you happy with the small knives you have to choose from? Would you be interested in a full size knife with a small blade to comply with the law?

What I'm imagining is a knife that is built like a full size knife, with a full size grip, liners and all the beefy things you get with a full size knife, but with a shorter blade. The Dodo is a close example of this. It has a much larger handle than is necessary for the length of the blade and it's more or less built pretty stout.

Personally I have a thing for blade ratios that are at or around 50/50, but that puts you in a situation where if you're stuck with a 2-2.5 inch blade length law, your only options are knifes that you can't get a full grip on. I don't think it's unreasonable to build a knife that's big enough for large hands and built to be used hard, but has a smaller blade to comply with laws.

But again, I don't really have a horse in this race. It just seemed like an interesting idea. As a guy who has huge hands, I don't really mind a Dragonfly but sometimes I need to cut things that require a stronger grip and more force than I can put on a Dragonfly grip. If I had to carry a Dragonfly to comply with length laws, I would always feel like I'm carrying a knife that isn't up to the challenge.

[harronek]

Ken

[The Deacon]

I'm sure your idea will appeal to some, but I'd pass.

Unless I have to visit "beautiful downtown Greenville" with its 3" blade length limit I can carry pretty much anything I want. Find it funny that I can carry an OTF auto with a 3" DE blade and a handgun into town, but not a Stretch. But, for the times I go there, I don't honestly think a Stretch with its blade reduced to comply would offer any advantage over a Chaparral.

[Evil D]

I'm sure your idea will appeal to some, but I'd pass.

Unless I have to visit "beautiful downtown Greenville" with its 3" blade length limit I can carry pretty much anything I want. Find it funny that I can carry an OTF auto with a 3" DE blade and a handgun into town, but not a Stretch. But, for the times I go there, I don't honestly think a Stretch with its blade reduced to comply would offer any advantage over a Chaparral.

I think the idea would be better for people who use their knives at work in areas with blade length laws.

[Blerv]

I'm a stickler for the law and can carry 3.5" in almost all my counties but have a number of 3" blades for other situations. These knives generally fit every role (and law) I encounter. I appreciate what Spyderco did with the Tenacious and also think for AFI's able to look past the aesthetics scaling the handle down isn't necessary unless your pockets are very space sensitive.

Most people I assume buy what "looks cool". The amount of places that are ok with a 4" bladed folder are few and far between. Yet these sell like hotcakes. I wish I could buy one too...it's just hard to get an insurance license with a weapons charge on your record, I think. :)

[sparky2016]

There aren't that many places with 2.5" restrictions, except for federal facilities. There doesn't seem to be that much interest around here in knives that size. And usually people are looking for light and slim, not large.

Once you get to 3" there are plenty of good options.

A well designed 2.5" knife can do a lot, without extra handle. Look at the byrd Robin 2 for example.

Since no one seems to have noticed, maybe the picture above needs some explanation, it's a Kahr Arms Delica
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... roduct=941 - Spyderco site
//forum.spyderco.com/viewto ... 03#p950803 - interesting and relevant discussion from Michael Janich in a forum thread

[Evil D]

The Kahr Delica is sort of what I'm talking about. I think the biggest problem here is the aesthetics of it...I think most people like a balanced blade to handle ratio, so a knife with a 4 inch handle and a 2.5 inch blade is going to look odd to most people.

A well designed 2.5" knife can do a lot, without extra handle. Look at the byrd Robin 2 for example.

It can, but it's safe to say it would be a lot more comfortable in extended use if the handle were bigger.

[TargaMonteSS]

Cold steel tuff lite would be an example. I think most people dont care or know about blade length laws. The ones who do care arnt the ones society should be restricting..

[swigert]

The Kahr Delica is sort of what I'm talking about. I think the biggest problem here is the aesthetics of it...I think most people like a balanced blade to handle ratio, so a knife with a 4 inch handle and a 2.5 inch blade is going to look odd to most people.

A well designed 2.5" knife can do a lot, without extra handle. Look at the byrd Robin 2 for example.

It can, but it's safe to say it would be a lot more comfortable in extended use if the handle were bigger.

it would be cool to see a shortened Yojimbo 2 blade in the Yoj 2 handle. Would be good for defense where blade lengths are an issue and for utility work....

[The Deacon]

I'm sure your idea will appeal to some, but I'd pass.

Unless I have to visit "beautiful downtown Greenville" with its 3" blade length limit I can carry pretty much anything I want. Find it funny that I can carry an OTF auto with a 3" DE blade and a handgun into town, but not a Stretch. But, for the times I go there, I don't honestly think a Stretch with its blade reduced to comply would offer any advantage over a Chaparral.

I think the idea would be better for people who use their knives at work in areas with blade length laws.

That could certainly be true. I know I had a co-worker back in NY who loved the Dodo.

The Kahr Delica is sort of what I'm talking about. I think the biggest problem here is the aesthetics of it...I think most people like a balanced blade to handle ratio, so a knife with a 4 inch handle and a 2.5 inch blade is going to look odd to most people.

A well designed 2.5" knife can do a lot, without extra handle. Look at the byrd Robin 2 for example.

It can, but it's safe to say it would be a lot more comfortable in extended use if the handle were bigger.

Here again, a lot of guys who use a knife for work are more accustom to utility knives that have short blades and long handles.

[BTG]

I like the idea, I've seen a few broken blade repairs from the seconds sale that really look nice ....PM2 size in the scale department, with a dragonfly blade would be sweet.

[Evil D]

Here again, a lot of guys who use a knife for work are more accustom to utility knives that have short blades and long handles.

Not sure if you're agreeing or not, but that's really my point. I can understand jobs where it's just not worth the money to invest in a folder when you're going to destroy the blade on a daily basis, then you're probably just better off using a replaceable blade utility knife. But, that can also be applied to a lot of EDC tasks. I did carry a Gerber EAB for several years and loved it, mostly because I didn't know how to sharpen a knife so it was just easier to swap the blade out when it got dull.

[bdblue]

The blade length limit here is 5.5". This is no problem at all for folders. I sometimes carry a Military or a Manix 2 XL and don't need or desire to carry anything longer, but I've had some interest in getting a Tatanka to carry in some situations just because it is still legal. But with respect to fixed blades it is a big pain because I find a lot of fixed blades I like that are just above 5.5". When 5.5" is the limit suddenly everything I'm interested in is 5.75" or 6".

[zhyla]

To paraphrase a celebrity, inside every 3.5" blade is a 2.45" blade waiting to get out.

[The Deacon]

Here again, a lot of guys who use a knife for work are more accustom to utility knives that have short blades and long handles.

Not sure if you're agreeing or not, but that's really my point. I can understand jobs where it's just not worth the money to invest in a folder when you're going to destroy the blade on a daily basis, then you're probably just better off using a replaceable blade utility knife. But, that can also be applied to a lot of EDC tasks. I did carry a Gerber EAB for several years and loved it, mostly because I didn't know how to sharpen a knife so it was just easier to swap the blade out when it got dull.

Understandable confusion, David. Not even sure myself. My thought was that folks accustom to using things like utility knives and linoleum knives, would be less inclined to consider a knife with a long handle and short blade "oddly proportioned". However, I have no idea whether or not that would translate into high enough sales volume for a more expensive knife with a non-replaceable blade to justify production. :o

[Jazz]

The idea's good. I think they look weird, but would be easier to really cut.

[SpyderMule]

I agree w/ others about the Kahr Arms Delica…

Even though I'd prefer to carry my Stretch2 - down here in South FL, I don't trust the ambiguity of the knife laws with my local law officer who might be having a bad day…

My black KA Delica provides me 'piece' of mind carry. ;-)

And it has a great look, and more importantly enough sizable handle, IMO…

[JD Spydo]

This is an extremely interesting topic EVIL D because in the past I've wondered about that myself as far as having a blade maybe the size of either of the Yojimbo models with large sized, ergonomic handles with blade lengths that would fall in line with even the most draconian blade length laws. Here in Missouri where I live we a law that says you can't carry a folder with a blade longer than 4 inches. That's perfect for me because it allows me to carry my M390 Military and my beloved, hallowed C-60 Ayoob with no worries about encountering legal nightmares.

But I do talk to a lot of the Brothers and Sisters here who live in states that won't allow you to carry any folder with a blade longer than 3 inches which would truly be much shorter than I would prefer. I think to one degree the Yojimbo models have indeed covered some of the bases you mentioned but I've got to admit that having a super sharp Wharnie type blade maybe only 2.5 inches long with an Ayoob type handle would truly be an SD beast to say the least.

What frustrates me the most is that many of these knife laws (including Switchblade laws) are extremely antiquated almost to the point of being like "Spitting On The Sidewalk" laws :rolleyes: The Federal Switchblade Act of the 1950s is truly idiotic and laughable to say the least. Get real!! How many of our horrible crimes are commited with knives these days anyway :rolleyes: ? Virtually none

But EVIL D is right a shorter blade with a longer, tactical handle may indeed fill a lot of people's needs for self defense IMO.

[Michael Janich]

Cool discussion...

When I designed the original Yojimbo 15+ years ago, it had a 3-inch blade in a handle that would accommodate a 4-incher. It was, to my knowledge, also the first purpose-designed tactical Wharncliffe folder. I specifically designed it for pre-9/11 FAA regulations, which allowed a 3-inch blade even under heightened security conditions.

I had a lot of naysayers who didn't like the knife, but those who actually cut with it quickly became believers.

I have "bobbed" a number of Yo 2s for folks who live in areas with 2.5-inch blade length limits.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=chi ... ajaxhist=0

They have been very well received and are go-to choices for those folks. The difference between a knife like this and a Dragonfly or something else with a balanced blade-to-handle ratio is the amount of power you can apply to a cut with a full-length handle. One can argue that all 2.5-inch blades are equal, but the difference lies in the power you can apply to the cut and your ability to manage the shock of real cutting. Those dynamics depend upon the handle size.

As the "good guys," I believe strongly that we should do everything we can to play by the rules while remaining well armed to defend ourselves effectively. Bobbing a full-length knife is a great way to keep those rules "pliable."

Stay safe,

Mike

[Evil D]

Mike that's exactly what I'm getting at. I'm a full supporter of the Dragonfly, it's one of my favorite knives. If I had to adhere to a length law it would be cool to have that blade in a larger handle for times when I really need to cut something with force.

To be honest I completely forgot about the Kahr Delica and it didn't occur to me that the handle is a decent size.

It's funny because I can't honestly say I would buy such a knife because I don't have to comply with a law, but for those who do I thought it was an interesting idea. I do often recommend bobbing the tip on a knife that someone really likes that is longer than they're allowed to carry, but in extreme cases they may not even be allowed to purchase those knives. I ground the spine down on my Paramilitary 1 to comply with a 3 inch law I used to live under. Some people also just don't have the tools or skill to do such mods, and then there's warranty concerns.

That bobbed Yojimbo is awesome looking. That has the making of a serious utility knife.