OK, it's time to get serious

[sal]

Hi Jazz, I saw your blade yesterday. It's being heat treated.

sal

[Holland]

Can't wait to see a photo!

[SpyderNut]

Looks like things just got real serious. :D

[Surfingringo]

kip.jpg (17.99 KiB) Viewed 2047 times

:D

[JasonC6612]

Hi Clovisc,

Good to hear from you. How is life in AK?

We are beginning a Salt series of heavy duty pcs made from LC200N / G-10, another nitrogen steel. If the response is good, we may try to make an FRN version to lower costs.

sal

Those nitrogen steels are really neat.. I'm sorry if this has been asked before. Will LC200N generally perform better than H1? Are there any big differences between these steels?

The performance difference is quite large. Lc200n shows the same level of corrosion resistance as H1 but FAR better edge retention. Not even close. I'm really looking forward to some of the new Salt releases!

If I'm not mistaken lc200n came out before h1 but hard to obtain? I tried looking up some stuff about it and that's something interesting I found.

[Jazz]

Hi Jazz, I saw your blade yesterday. It's being heat treated.

sal

I'm as excited as a kid in a candy store with ten bucks! How am I supposed to sleep now?

[dc50]

This is going to be a winner for sure. It's funny how things work,I have many high end Spyderco,and others as well.
Over the past year I have come full circle back to the frn delica and native as my favorite knives to use and carry.

[Jazz]

This is going to be a winner for sure. It's funny how things work,I have many high end Spyderco,and others as well.
Over the past year I have come full circle back to the frn delica and native as my favorite knives to use and carry.

Funny, I always come back to the Delica. I have 7 or 8 of them - different colors, steels, and handles. The FRN ones are the best feeling to my hands, and the perfect weight. Just all around great knives. Also, I always have an Endura in my right rear pocket when out and about.

[Lebowski22]

No matter how many "high end" Spydies I aquire, I seem to gravitate to the Delica and Stretch over and over again. Sometimes something is just right.

This is such an impressive thread and response. Totally validates my affinity for Spyderco. I'll buy a warnie Delica on day one.

[dc50]

No matter how many "high end" Spydies I aquire, I seem to gravitate to the Delica and Stretch over and over again. Sometimes something is just right.

This is such an impressive thread and response. Totally validates my affinity for Spyderco. I'll buy a warnie Delica on day one.

Re; warnie, I find the wharncliffe is my go to when opening bubble pks and parcels.

[Jazz]

Quick vid I made showing the tip strength if a FFG Delica VG10. Sorry, I don't have an HD camera...

https://youtu.be/xXQvF3A3FE4

[twinboysdad]

Have I said the D4 FFG tip is too thin? Many times. Do I feel like Jazz kinda made me rethink? I do

[Jazz]

It made me rethink, but I still wouldn't complain about a wee bit more thickness. Still, they cut great, as I'm finding out for myself. Looking from the spine they're thin, but from the side, you see there's more material than you think. That's how they can perforate cans.

[speedseeker]

Thanks for the discussion, Sal. First, if anyone pays attention to Mr. Janich's explanations on straight edges in slicing, they'll know about how they cut to the tip and don't slide off. Another reason I want a wharnie for work is this: when inserting the tip in tape or whatever, with the straight edge the tip is already there - with a belly, you have to lift your hand a fair amount to get the tip inserted. Here are 2 pics to show what I mean. The edge of the desk is the "box or tape, etc."...

I completely agree about the cutting power of a straight edge...that's just physics and can't really be argued with for the most part. There is however one detail that I think you're overlooking, that I'm going to talk about..not to talk you in or out of any other design, but because there was a time when I was like you and all I wanted to carry was a wharnie, mostly because of the exact thing you mentioned about getting the tip down into a box.

What I realized is that the shape of the edge/belly is not the whole issue, but rather the angle of the blade and tip in relation to the handle, or positive angle (blade sweeping upwards from the handle, like the new Spydiechef) as opposed to a negative blade angle that sweeps downward from the handle (like a Massad Ayoob).

So, lets look at two knives as an extreme comparison of this, and hopefully after this you'll see why I've chosen to EDC a Manix 2, because I believe it gives you the best of both worlds.

First, we have a wharnie. Forgive me for using a non Spyderco, but this is a great example. We have the Kershaw Needs Work:


Notice that while it is a wharnie blade like you and I both like, it has a very positive blade angle in relation to the handle. This means that you're still going to have to angle your hand up high in order to get the tip down onto a cutting surface.

Next lets look at the Massad Ayoob:


Because of the extreme negative angle on this blade, the tip is positioned way down in relation to the handle. This means that despite having quite a bit of belly, you'll be holding your hand/wrist at a very reasonable angle in order to get the tip down onto a cutting surface.


What I look at very closely in pretty much every knife I buy is the tip location in relation to the handle. On some knives like the Delica and Manix 2, the blade may have some belly but the tip is still positioned pretty low. Spyderco also seems to be pretty generous with the negative blade angles, as most of their designs are more on the negative side than positive side. This has a few benefits beyond just getting the tip lower, as it also adds power to draw cuts in a similar way that a wharnie does. As Micheal Janich has explained here, a wharnie cuts with full power all the way to the tip, BUT that's only true when the angle of the blade is even with or has a negative angle in relation to the handle. That Kershaw Needs Work is not going to cut with the same power as a Yojimbo 2 in a slashing arch because despite having a straight edge, the tip is still angled AWAY from the direction of the cut. On some knives, the angle of the blade can compensate for the straight vs. belly edge issue by lowering the tip, which means the tip will be doing as much cutting power as a straight edge would be as long as they're both positioned at the same angle in relation to the handle. On a blade that has a belly, the tip may still be cutting with less power than the rest of the belly, but that's only because the belly is cutting with even more power.

Man I hope that made sense. Anyway, the conclusion I came to was that the blade angle on a Manix 2 was actually lower than a Yojimbo 2 in relation to the handle, which means I don't have to hold my wrist any higher to get the point to penetrate into something. I also end up with just enough belly to make it more versatile than a wharnie, which does come in handy at times. My point of all this is just that the curve of an edge is only part of the story when it comes to getting the tip down into a box to cut it open.

Late to the game here but just wanted to point out what a quality post this was. Thanks Evil.

[speedseeker]

Thanks for the discussion, Sal. First, if anyone pays attention to Mr. Janich's explanations on straight edges in slicing, they'll know about how they cut to the tip and don't slide off. Another reason I want a wharnie for work is this: when inserting the tip in tape or whatever, with the straight edge the tip is already there - with a belly, you have to lift your hand a fair amount to get the tip inserted. Here are 2 pics to show what I mean. The edge of the desk is the "box or tape, etc."...

I completely agree about the cutting power of a straight edge...that's just physics and can't really be argued with for the most part. There is however one detail that I think you're overlooking, that I'm going to talk about..not to talk you in or out of any other design, but because there was a time when I was like you and all I wanted to carry was a wharnie, mostly because of the exact thing you mentioned about getting the tip down into a box.

What I realized is that the shape of the edge/belly is not the whole issue, but rather the angle of the blade and tip in relation to the handle, or positive angle (blade sweeping upwards from the handle, like the new Spydiechef) as opposed to a negative blade angle that sweeps downward from the handle (like a Massad Ayoob).

So, lets look at two knives as an extreme comparison of this, and hopefully after this you'll see why I've chosen to EDC a Manix 2, because I believe it gives you the best of both worlds.

First, we have a wharnie. Forgive me for using a non Spyderco, but this is a great example. We have the Kershaw Needs Work:


Notice that while it is a wharnie blade like you and I both like, it has a very positive blade angle in relation to the handle. This means that you're still going to have to angle your hand up high in order to get the tip down onto a cutting surface.

Next lets look at the Massad Ayoob:


Because of the extreme negative angle on this blade, the tip is positioned way down in relation to the handle. This means that despite having quite a bit of belly, you'll be holding your hand/wrist at a very reasonable angle in order to get the tip down onto a cutting surface.


What I look at very closely in pretty much every knife I buy is the tip location in relation to the handle. On some knives like the Delica and Manix 2, the blade may have some belly but the tip is still positioned pretty low. Spyderco also seems to be pretty generous with the negative blade angles, as most of their designs are more on the negative side than positive side. This has a few benefits beyond just getting the tip lower, as it also adds power to draw cuts in a similar way that a wharnie does. As Micheal Janich has explained here, a wharnie cuts with full power all the way to the tip, BUT that's only true when the angle of the blade is even with or has a negative angle in relation to the handle. That Kershaw Needs Work is not going to cut with the same power as a Yojimbo 2 in a slashing arch because despite having a straight edge, the tip is still angled AWAY from the direction of the cut. On some knives, the angle of the blade can compensate for the straight vs. belly edge issue by lowering the tip, which means the tip will be doing as much cutting power as a straight edge would be as long as they're both positioned at the same angle in relation to the handle. On a blade that has a belly, the tip may still be cutting with less power than the rest of the belly, but that's only because the belly is cutting with even more power.

Man I hope that made sense. Anyway, the conclusion I came to was that the blade angle on a Manix 2 was actually lower than a Yojimbo 2 in relation to the handle, which means I don't have to hold my wrist any higher to get the point to penetrate into something. I also end up with just enough belly to make it more versatile than a wharnie, which does come in handy at times. My point of all this is just that the curve of an edge is only part of the story when it comes to getting the tip down into a box to cut it open.

Dup post

[Jazz]

Okay, another argument for my case of 3" blade for work - as I was cutting tape today, I realized I forgot to mention how, when you hold a blade with your index finger near the tip so you don't cut the contents of the box (just barely past the tape, etc.), that's the perfect length. Any longer and you can get cut (unless you have big-*** hands). If I'm not being clear, it's as though you were skinning an animal - that choking up hold.

[Evil D]

Okay, another argument for my case of 3" blade for work - as I was cutting tape today, I realized I forgot to mention how, when you hold a blade with your index finger near the tip so you don't cut the contents of the box (just barely past the tape, etc.), that's the perfect length. Any longer and you can get cut (unless you have big-*** hands). If I'm not being clear, it's as though you were skinning an animal - that choking up hold.

You know what would be really cool...make a sheepsfoot blade but give it a finger dip and jimping at the tip like the Jester.

[Jazz]

That might be cool, but not for me. I'm not really a fan of jimping near the tip. I love jimping by the hole, though. I employ a more precise hold on the blade tip like this here a lot - just enough to barely get in there...



Another example is when there are metal lids in the box right on top and I want to cut the tape. That's what I do so I don't destroy the tip, though I have accidentally swiped it across some metal a couple times when in a hurry and not thinkimg. :rolleyes:

[3rdGenRigger]

I do similar at work when I'm cutting open boxes that have metal parts inside. I definitely prefer having a pointy tip to a sheepsfoot to pierce through bags etc. but a spine bevel like on the Dragonfly/Caly Jr. would be really nice and I find it helps in grips like you're using in the above photo.

[Jazz]

I find it works with any blade shape, but of course, with a wharnie, there's less chance of slippage with the straight edge. I know slippage isn't occurring a ton, but it does, even with a really sharp edge. Man, I can't wait to try out this knife. Perfect Delica handle and wharnie blade with FFG. It's going to kill cardboard and any packaging.