EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
Hello everyone,
I have been carrying my Mantra for about a week now and it is starting to break in and lose the new knife 'tightness' and 'grittiness' that tend to be associated with Taichung Spydercos.
I was wondering what people's views are on lubricating flippers that are used for EDC - my experience has been that it is best to use little to no lube on EDC knives as it just attracts dust and dirt in the pocket. However this is my first flipper and my first ball-bearing pivot knife so have no experience with using this type of knife for EDC. After several days of carrying mine I noticed there was quite a bit of dust inside - I cleaned it out with q-tips and used a very thin cloth to clean inside the pivot area, and the flipping action seemed to improve after this.
Your thoughts and recommendations would be appreciated!
Regards,
Bruno
I have been carrying my Mantra for about a week now and it is starting to break in and lose the new knife 'tightness' and 'grittiness' that tend to be associated with Taichung Spydercos.
I was wondering what people's views are on lubricating flippers that are used for EDC - my experience has been that it is best to use little to no lube on EDC knives as it just attracts dust and dirt in the pocket. However this is my first flipper and my first ball-bearing pivot knife so have no experience with using this type of knife for EDC. After several days of carrying mine I noticed there was quite a bit of dust inside - I cleaned it out with q-tips and used a very thin cloth to clean inside the pivot area, and the flipping action seemed to improve after this.
Your thoughts and recommendations would be appreciated!
Regards,
Bruno
Last edited by glbpro on Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
- PayneTrain
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Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
I'm with you, my friend! I only lube my knives under rare circumstances. Any knife in my pocket is subject to food duty, which limits my lubrication options to food grade mineral oil which works well, but dries up fast. It would require frequent (in my opinion) application, and also cleaning to remove the old residue and dirt trapped in it. I have enough things to worry about without adding whether or not my knife needs an oil change!
Sure, oil will make them open objectively more smoothly, but honestly they all work so well without it, there is really no need in my opinion. With some pretty effortless care and common sense in keeping the pivots clean and dry, oil really doesn't make enough of a difference on most of my knives to be worth the trouble. I say run em dry!
Edit to add this includes my Southard. Even after rusting the bearings due to improper washing and drying, it is smoothing out enough to where oil just doesn't make a significant difference and will not be used.
Sure, oil will make them open objectively more smoothly, but honestly they all work so well without it, there is really no need in my opinion. With some pretty effortless care and common sense in keeping the pivots clean and dry, oil really doesn't make enough of a difference on most of my knives to be worth the trouble. I say run em dry!
Edit to add this includes my Southard. Even after rusting the bearings due to improper washing and drying, it is smoothing out enough to where oil just doesn't make a significant difference and will not be used.
"Be the person your dog thinks you are."
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
I am religious about nothing. I think it depends on how a given knife is to be used. I have "EDC" knives* that I use in the yard and for other crap work, and they get pretty dirty. I still lube them (with mineral oil) but I go pretty light. It probably won't matter as much on the ones that see lighter/cleaner use.
Another factor is how often you clean them. Or if you clean them.
I've tried the so-called "dry lubes" and don't like any of them, for various reasons.
But I'm not as sold on the "don't lube it; it will just hold dirt" argument as others. You have to constantly lubricate chainsaw blades, and they sure get rough and dirty treatment. Why not just run them dry? In a knife, sure the wet lube will hold dirt more than if you kept the knife dry, but it's not going to stay dirt-free if you use it dry, and a wet lube will enable it to work better when dirt does get in there.
But hey, I'm not pontificating here. I have no scientific evidence one way or the other. Does anyone? If not, then it's all just words on a page.
I can see this turning into a huge thread. Release the hounds...
* My "EDC" knives are usually either a Delica 4, a Stretch, or a competitor's knife (won't name it, out of respect) that cost me $180 USD. I don't EDC "cheap" knives. I only mention this because someone mentioned cost. None of these felt like they "needed" lubrication. I usually can't tell a difference afterward. Maybe I shouldn't bother.
Another factor is how often you clean them. Or if you clean them.
I've tried the so-called "dry lubes" and don't like any of them, for various reasons.
But I'm not as sold on the "don't lube it; it will just hold dirt" argument as others. You have to constantly lubricate chainsaw blades, and they sure get rough and dirty treatment. Why not just run them dry? In a knife, sure the wet lube will hold dirt more than if you kept the knife dry, but it's not going to stay dirt-free if you use it dry, and a wet lube will enable it to work better when dirt does get in there.
But hey, I'm not pontificating here. I have no scientific evidence one way or the other. Does anyone? If not, then it's all just words on a page.
I can see this turning into a huge thread. Release the hounds...
* My "EDC" knives are usually either a Delica 4, a Stretch, or a competitor's knife (won't name it, out of respect) that cost me $180 USD. I don't EDC "cheap" knives. I only mention this because someone mentioned cost. None of these felt like they "needed" lubrication. I usually can't tell a difference afterward. Maybe I shouldn't bother.
Last edited by Knutty on Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"We have more metal parts fail than plastic parts. Modern plastics are tough. 'Feeling cheap' may be a false perception and one might need more education. We rarely get a FRN knife back with handle problems and we have millions of them out in daily use. " --Sal Glesser
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
Bearing grease.
Don't take your knife apart or you'll void your warranty.
But, bearing grease. There are bearings in the pivot. Bearing grease.
Bearing. Grease.
Don't take your knife apart or you'll void your warranty.
But, bearing grease. There are bearings in the pivot. Bearing grease.
Bearing. Grease.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
Not Crisco?
"We have more metal parts fail than plastic parts. Modern plastics are tough. 'Feeling cheap' may be a false perception and one might need more education. We rarely get a FRN knife back with handle problems and we have millions of them out in daily use. " --Sal Glesser
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
Knutty wrote:Not Crisco?
Believe it or not, Crisco makes an excellent blade/pivot lube if you're looking for something that's food safe. It would be fine for bearings too since it's a pretty light viscosity compared to most greases. You don't need something heavy like axle grease and in fact that would only slow down the pivot action. Crisco's shelf life is up to 2 years so you also don't have to worry it going rancid unless you put it on a knife that's just going to sit around and never get used. I used to use it all the time on my carbon blades and I would use it over mineral oil on anything used for food prep.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
Yeah, I believe it. Look at the king's ransom that the Frog Lube people are charging for what is just some type of cooking oil and some green dye.
I also don't use any folding knives for food prep; not sure why anyone would.
I also don't use any folding knives for food prep; not sure why anyone would.
"We have more metal parts fail than plastic parts. Modern plastics are tough. 'Feeling cheap' may be a false perception and one might need more education. We rarely get a FRN knife back with handle problems and we have millions of them out in daily use. " --Sal Glesser
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
I don't do it often on my EDC blades, but I've previously used a drop of two of gun oil from just one of my standard cleaning kits. It seemed to work well. None of my higher end knives need it though.
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
I would be very much interested in documentation of your statement that the Frog Lube is cooking oil and green dye. If it really is an "oil" I am wondering why it dries completely, leaving no residue as an oil would. It does not wash away nor seem to wear away in use and retains protection for longer periods than I would think an oil would do, especially a "cooking oil" as you state.Knutty wrote:Yeah, I believe it. Look at the king's ransom that the Frog Lube people are charging for what is just some type of cooking oil and some green dye.
Myself and Mr. Greg Holmes of TSA Knives have done some pretty extensive testing of the Frog Lube over a period of time with some pretty interesting results leaving us both feeling that it seems to be worthy of the price. We have both posted our test procedure and the results on the TSA Blog and we have received agreement with our findings. My personal testing was done on my MT21 knife in CPM 4V, and is still ongoing.
Please do not get me wrong. I am not trying to find fault with you in any way. I am just seriously interested in knowing the basis for your comment. Are you able to document your comment with evidence and facts, or is it just personal opinion on a public forum? If I am missing something concerning the product I am truly interested in knowing about it. I certainly do not wish to waste my money on "dyed cooking oil". :)
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
The phrase "cooking oil" was meant rhetorically, not literally. But the truth is not far off.
http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-op ... -analysis/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016 ... not-frogs/
http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-op ... -analysis/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016 ... not-frogs/
"We have more metal parts fail than plastic parts. Modern plastics are tough. 'Feeling cheap' may be a false perception and one might need more education. We rarely get a FRN knife back with handle problems and we have millions of them out in daily use. " --Sal Glesser
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
Thank you very much for providing those links. Certainly interesting to say the least and very much appreciated.Knutty wrote:The phrase "cooking oil" was meant rhetorically, not literally. But the truth is not far off.
http://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-op ... -analysis/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016 ... not-frogs/
As they say, "knowledge is power" and thanks to you and this information I now know a bit more about the subject.
I have to say, the "comments" posted at the end of the testing review were the best part of the whole deal.
I especially like the one about the "mail lady" and also the "road kill raccoon"!! Scientific testing at its best........
Thanks again. :)
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
Update on this thread - I've carried the Mantra for over a month now and in that time have not lubed it at all, so it's running just on what came from the factory. I've been cleaning out the inside once a week or so, including using some really thin tissue paper to get inside the pivot area. I've been careful not to use any solvent during the cleaning that might dissolve the factory lube, just dry cotton buds and air from a hand blower.
I'm happy to report that the flipping action has definitely improved - the grittiness is almost all gone and the detent has broken in nicely. The lack of additional lube seems to have had no effect whatsoever on the action of the knife so I'm inclined to feel that for now at least no lube is the way to go.
The other thing I'm happy about is that the CPM-M4 appears to have no trouble dealing with my tropical environment and sitting in my often sweaty pocket all day!
I'm happy to report that the flipping action has definitely improved - the grittiness is almost all gone and the detent has broken in nicely. The lack of additional lube seems to have had no effect whatsoever on the action of the knife so I'm inclined to feel that for now at least no lube is the way to go.
The other thing I'm happy about is that the CPM-M4 appears to have no trouble dealing with my tropical environment and sitting in my often sweaty pocket all day!
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
Quick update - have carried the Mantra daily for over two months now with no additional lubrication. No problems at all, continues to work flawlessly. I have found that the only way to get this flipper to 'misfire' is to try and flip it upwards, ie where the blade has to overcome the force of gravity in order to open fully. Flipping it in any other orientation invariably produces perfect opening and lock engagement.
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
The only times I've had a flipper fail to flip are when I "pull" the flipper tab as opposed to "pressing" it inward. It seems to me that you can apply far more force when pressing the tab inwards than by pulling it back.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
I usually avoid lubeing ball bearing pivots, or any pivot for that matter.
If I am going to EDC a knife that means pocket time and use. Lube is just going to accumulate gunk and dirt.
I've never felt that any of my knives have benefited much from lube.
If I am going to EDC a knife that means pocket time and use. Lube is just going to accumulate gunk and dirt.
I've never felt that any of my knives have benefited much from lube.
W.O.T.W. - Way of the Wharncliffe
Re: EDC Flippers - to lube or not to lube?
Lube the detent ball. Only grittiness I've noticed on Spydercos was from the detent ball.