Working Class Dogs

[Holzfaeller]

I see a trend that Spyderco is making more knives that fit my budget without sacrificing functionality. My Manix LW gets the most pocket time of any and the price is more than reasonable for what I got. I always wanted a Street Beat, but couldn't take the plunge, while the Lightweight is a knife I can afford and I'm not hesitant to use. I'm pleased to see that Spyderco hasn't forgotten about customers like me and I hope to see other models offered in a working-class version.

[elena86]

Define working class

[Surfingringo]

I'll throw my 2 cents in. I too like the "working class" knives. I define working class primarily by toughness and price. A knife that can take constant use and a bit of abuse while still being inexpensive enough that I'm not afraid to use it hard. The Salt knives kind of define this genre for me. Most of the frn knives I would call "working class" and I really love that line of Spydercos. The frn knives are pretty much my favorites, whether we are talking about the salts, or the Delica/Endura/Stretch line. Of course, if we are using price to help define "working class" then t's a pretty subjective category because everyone has a different view of what "expensive" is. For me, I like that $50-$100 range for my real heavy users.

[Joris Mo]

Was also so happy to hear at the Amsterdam meet that the PM3 will be produced in FRN as well!
I love the FRN users but also really like the Military & PM as hard users.

[Able Dog]

Like my forum namesake, the AD-1 Skyraider "Able Dog", my preferences for working class knives reflect simplicity, reliability, and performance.

They may not be as pretty or complex as a Rubicon, but I'm certainly more willing to take a stainless Police to task. Or an Endura or Delica for that matter.

And boy, doesn't a stainless handle look beautiful after a couple months of EDC.

[Holland]

Was also so happy to hear at the Amsterdam meet that the PM3 will be produced in FRN as well!
I love the FRN users but also really like the Military & PM as hard users.

Well that just moved from might get to must have

[Joris Mo]

I'm hoping that if the FRN PM3 will be a success that it will be good enough an excuse to start considering the PM2 in FRN seriously..
But of course we'll have to patiently wait for the PM3 first, still great that there will finally be an FRN compression lock!
(and when the PM3 is released that may likely become my new all time favorite folder instead of the PM2)

My PM2 is my favorite EDC/hard user, I think it might become the pair of a Pacific Salt SE with a lightweight PM3.
(already love the SE Pacific Salt for hard use but do like to have a PE around, if possible with a fine tip)

[Mad Mac]

It seems to me the ideal working class dog would have tough, hand-filling G10 scales, steel liners and a liner lock, an oversized opening hole, generous jimping and a flat grind, leaf-shaped blade -- all at an affordable price.

That would be the Tenacious. My two have really worked out well for me as EDCs. My other Spyderco knives stay rolled up in my SpyderPac. But I could be wrong. I often am.

[Evil D]

It's all about your perspective and opinion on value.

For example, lets talk about work boots. I don't mean casual work boots, I mean boots that can walk you through **** and back and keep your feet in one piece. You can go out and buy the best boots your local shoe store sell, for example maybe you like Redwing. I love Redwing, I've owned several pair, and I get years of wear out of them. I pay about $200 a pair for them, which most people I know think is insane. They all buy department store boots at or under $100. Then they complain to me about sore feet and their boots wearing out.

Then, lets consider that you can go to some companies and order custom fitted work boots for $400-$600. You might think to yourself...$600 for a pair of work boots that are going to get trashed anyway? That's insane! Why waste your money on boots that expensive? Well, if those boots last you 10 years, while your buddy is buying a new pair of his department store boots at $100 a pair every year, who has spent more money? And, if your feet are more comfortable and better protected for all those years, I'd say you got the better value.

With knives, you have to consider what you value more and what you use the knife for and what you expect the knife to be good at. You have to be honest with your needs, do you need crazy edge retention or do you really only sharpen your knife once a week or even longer? Do you really beat your knives and use them to scrape with and really need a tougher steel that won't chip? If you're a person who really beats on your EDC knife and you're really going to lean on it, then maybe coughing up the dough for something like a Strider or Henderer that are known to take a beating and keep on ticking will end up being the better value over the years if you find that you're breaking that $40 Tenacious.

I do believe you get what you pay for, but I also think that saying only really applies when an item is pushed to the limits of what it is designed for. For example, I believe you can spend $100 for a titanium and hickory carpenter's framing hammer, and you'll have one of the finest hammers ever made. But, if all I'm doing is tacking nails in my walls to hang pictures off of, then the $4 claw hammer at Walmart will work just fine, and then the saying "you get what you pay for" is really kind of silly. If your EDC is only ever used to open the mail, trim your nails, slice your sandwich in half for lunch, and pluck hair off the back of your hand, then you really aren't "getting what you paid for" in a $600 folder, at least not when we start talking about working dogs and value and such.

[Surfingringo]

I agree with you to an extent David, but the law of diminishing returns is definitely at play here.

On another note, I like that the frn Salt knives can handle everything I throw at them for YEARS and still be priced in that $50-$100 range. I like it because mine are more likely to end up on the bottom of the ocean than they are to ever get "worn out". It sucks watching a knife sink into the depths of the ocean but watching a $60 one sink sucks way less than watching a $600 sink. :D

[Evil D]

I agree with you to an extent David, but the law of diminishing returns is definitely at play here.

On another note, I like that the frn Salt knives can handle everything I throw at them for YEARS and still be priced in that $50-$100 range. I like it because mine are more likely to end up on the bottom of the ocean than they are to ever get "worn out". It sucks watching a knife sink into the depths of the ocean but watching a $60 one sink sucks way less than watching a $600 sink. :D

That was really what I was trying to point out. I just get wordy sometimes :o

[Doc Dan]

If I were Bill Gates a $200 to $600 knife would not bother me. But I do not want to spend that much for a knife I am going to actually use. The PM3 is a definite must have for me.

[Bill1170]

It's all about your perspective and opinion on value.

For example, lets talk about work boots. I don't mean casual work boots, I mean boots that can walk you through **** and back and keep your feet in one piece. You can go out and buy the best boots your local shoe store sell, for example maybe you like Redwing. I love Redwing, I've owned several pair, and I get years of wear out of them. I pay about $200 a pair for them, which most people I know think is insane. They all buy department store boots at or under $100. Then they complain to me about sore feet and their boots wearing out.

Then, lets consider that you can go to some companies and order custom fitted work boots for $400-$600. You might think to yourself...$600 for a pair of work boots that are going to get trashed anyway? That's insane! Why waste your money on boots that expensive? Well, if those boots last you 10 years, while your buddy is buying a new pair of his department store boots at $100 a pair every year, who has spent more money? And, if your feet are more comfortable and better protected for all those years, I'd say you got the better value.

With knives, you have to consider what you value more and what you use the knife for and what you expect the knife to be good at. You have to be honest with your needs, do you need crazy edge retention or do you really only sharpen your knife once a week or even longer? Do you really beat your knives and use them to scrape with and really need a tougher steel that won't chip? If you're a person who really beats on your EDC knife and you're really going to lean on it, then maybe coughing up the dough for something like a Strider or Henderer that are known to take a beating and keep on ticking will end up being the better value over the years if you find that you're breaking that $40 Tenacious.

I do believe you get what you pay for, but I also think that saying only really applies when an item is pushed to the limits of what it is designed for. For example, I believe you can spend $100 for a titanium and hickory carpenter's framing hammer, and you'll have one of the finest hammers ever made. But, if all I'm doing is tacking nails in my walls to hang pictures off of, then the $4 claw hammer at Walmart will work just fine, and then the saying "you get what you pay for" is really kind of silly. If your EDC is only ever used to open the mail, trim your nails, slice your sandwich in half for lunch, and pluck hair off the back of your hand, then you really aren't "getting what you paid for" in a $600 folder, at least not when we start talking about working dogs and value and such.

David, I'm quoting your wonderful post. I just read paragraphs one, two, three, and five to my wife who agrees that it is very well stated. Bravo!

[Evil D]

David, I'm quoting your wonderful post. I just read paragraphs one, two, three, and five to my wife who agrees that it is very well stated. Bravo!

Thanks Bill and Bill's wife :D

I have an odd opinion on things like this, because I grew up very poor and always had very poor quality things that never lasted, like cheap shoes for example. Because of that, now I will go to great lengths to make ways to afford things that really are not in my budget, if I feel those things are good quality and are going to last. I know that the knives I own will last the rest of my life as long as I use them for what they're intended for and/or I don't sharpen them down to a nub. I also have a couple SHTF type knives that I would use if the zombies came and I needed to pry a door off it's hinges with my folder lol.

But, even I have my limits and there are definitely knives that are too expensive and too nice to go out and beat on. When you do jobs like Lance where there's a very good chance that you might lose your knife, or if you do a job where you're destroying the edge everyday and find that you're removing a lot of steel to repair chips and such, then you're going to use up a knife much faster than the average person so it's probably a waste of your money to carry a Sebenza to do that job. What you use the knife for is probably just as important as what you think value is. Most people can probably get through their day to day with nothing more than a Svord Peasant, but we have it in our heads that we NEED that lock and we NEED that fancy steel. I guess we're lucky to have options.

[v8r]

When I used to turn wrenches for a living ,family and friends couldn't understand why I bought tools that were in their mind "expensive". It's hard for most people to understand why a department store wrench or ratchet simply will not hold up to professional use.
I always try to purchase the best that I can afford when it comes to tools which I consider a knife to be. I always suggest to people to buy the best you can afford, and to be honest most of us can afford better if we would skip the 10 dollar a cup coffee or other frivolous things.

[Bill1170]

Yep, I use tools for a living, too. Lots of my equipment is very old because I take good care of it, so it'll last. The concept of "beating on" a knife is simply alien to me. I learned to be frugal as a child and that includes being careful with my belongings. My Wap brand shop vacuum cost me a lot 25 years ago, but it still works great, quiet and powerful. Same for my circular saws. I guess using the proper tool for the job at hand is more satisfying to me than abusing a tool to perform a function it isn't made to do.

[SpyderNut]

I agree heartily with Evil (and his "wordy" post :p ) But seriously, you generally always get what you pay for, be it boots, vehicles, firearms, electronics, etc., etc. It is for this reason my Dad always advised buying the highest quality of an item that can be afforded. I've done well to adhere to his advice and it has proven true on many occasions over the years.
As for knives, I will use and enjoy my FRN models for the daily grind, but I will save my higher-end stuff for formal (light duty) occasions. Just seems to make sense to me--especially since Spyderco has introduced high horsepower steels like S110V into their FRN and FRCP line.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Or like an old WW2 veteran friend of mine would say "Knives for DogFaces". The old term for enlisted men in the infantry, especially around WW2. Based on what I saw of his taste in knives, for a folder on this topic, he'd pick an Endura with plain edge, because his philosophy of tools is, keep it simple and field-sharpenable.

[toomzz]

Well put David

[palonej]

Great way to look at things Dave! Been in the HVAC field for over 40 years......40 hard working years. I still have some of the tools I was given when I started and they were old when I got them.
I see the new guys start with tools I would NEVER trust my hands with.....ever!
My electrical pliers, one of my most used tools, cost $80. You can get a pair for $10.....I say good luck.
My work knife is a Pac Salt, think it cost me ~ $60. Guys I work with carry $5 gas station specials......they'll go through 1 a month....if they're lucky.
After almost a year of abusing that Pac Salt you'd swear I got it yesterday! Tough tool!!
Joe