Advantages of VG10 over other premium steels

[archangel]

It seems that VG10 is being used in quite a few of the spydies that are on the upper end of the price range. Not on all though. I have a feeling that it had been selected for these knifes quite a while ago, and that for newer top-of-the-line knifes, other steels have been preferred.

I have also come across a few postings in which VG10 has been proposed for new hypothetic knive projects by this forum's members.

What are the advantages of VG10 over other steels? What could drive spyderco to choose VG10 over other premium steels for a new premium knive nowadays?

[toomzz]

Hi Michael, VG10 has been around long and IMHO I still consider it as very fine stainless steel. It can still compete with many other 'main stream' stainless steels. Realize that Spyderco spoils us with all those special and exotic steels which give us steel after steel the opportunity to try them out. VG10 is still there though.....

[The Deacon]

IMHO, VG-10 has a better balance of qualities than many of the other "premium" steels that Spyderco's Japanese makers are willing to work with. The others all seem to sacrifice stainlessness, toughness, ease of sharpening, or some combinations of those qualities for edge holding. As far as cost, if you look at Japanese models available in VG-10 and other steels, using the same handle/scale material, the VG-10 version is always the least expensive. It would not surprise me if at least some of those who suggest VG-10 for new Japanese models do so as a cost control measure.

[archangel]

You mean a knive like e.g. the Tatanka would cost more if it wasn't using VG10 but any other high class steel?

[dbcad]

I don't understand what is meant by "other premium steels". Do you mean S30V, or CTS-XHP? Stainless or carbon steel?

I like VG-10 because it takes and keeps a very fine polished edge, is very easy to sharpen/touch up, and is very stable/stainless. S30V is great for edge longevity, but it needs a bit of a coarser grind and doesn't keep uber sharpness as well. Other steels in the large carbide category most likely act similarly but keep a working edge for a very long time. CTS-XHP seems similar in that respect, but I'm still playing with it and haven't drawn any strong conclusions yet. Undecided about HAP 40 as well.. Super Blue is great for uber sharpness retention and sharpening ease but has a tendency to oxuidize (tarnish or rust) :eek:

There are many other materials to choose from. For me VG-10 offers the best balance of desirable properties. It was originally conceived as a material for pruning knives, meant for cutting with a fine edge from it's inception. :D

Enjoy your study of blade materials :) It's always good to know what you're playing with :D

[The Deacon]

You mean a knive like e.g. the Tatanka would c :confused: ost more if it wasn't using VG10 but any other high class steel?

Perhaps not "any other", but definitely any of the other "high class" steels Spyderco uses on models made in Japan. For example, MSRP for the VG-10 FRN Dragonfly 2 is $90, ZDP-189 version is $125, HAP-40 version is $115, H-1 version is $95, and the Super Blue version was $105.

[sal]

The comments made are very close to reality. Another consideration not mentioned is the makers comfort level with different steels. Another issue is that, generally, our customers are happy with VG-10. Only the afi's are asking for more variety.

There seems to be greater interest in knives worldwide more recently. Perhaps the number of afi's is growing?

I would be interested to hear more opinions on VG-10 in general.

sal

[archangel]

@ Paul: Not sure whether Hap40 and SB should be taken into consideration, as the knives produced with those are/were sprints, with limited quantities, thus a naturally higher price. But I take it that the country of production is a factor for the selection of a new knife's steel. Maybe I haven't considered this enough before.

@ Sal: Thank you for your insight, much appreciated. So we can assume that VG10 will continue to pop up even in high class knives?

[Blerv]

Cost, toughness (relative), corrosion resistance, ease of sharpening.

[ChrisinHove]

Along with N690, I consider vg10 a benchmark steel, because it is good enough for me in all respects,


I'd like a drop-point UKPK in one of these steels, please(!).

[Evil D]

I like to think steel choice has a lot to do with the intended use of the knife, but I'm sure it's a combination of many things like cost, maker, country of origin, etc. It's all in what you want the knife to be good at.

Simple example, I don't think many people would argue that any model would be better with H1 steel if the intended use of the knife were in salt water. Or if the intended use of the knife were to chop maybe M4 would be better suited.

If you start classifying steels as "high and low end" you really end up overlooking most of these scenarios. Someone might say S110V is a higher end steel than VG10 because it can hold an edge longer, while another person may say VG10 is the better steel because it's easier to sharpen.

[Doc Dan]

I like VG10 and I'll tell you why. It takes a very sharp edge and holds it a long time, is not too chippy, and has good stainless properties. Overall it is a well balanced steel. It is easy to sharpen and what is more, it is easy to touch up and in a knife I use every day I want these properties. I enjoy some of the other steels but in an everyday knife I prefer VG10 or something in that range. Some will hold an edge for an incredible amount of time, but when it comes time to sharpen they can be a real bear. Others are brittle or lack other attributes. VG10 just does most things well, for me.

[paladin]

The only issue I ran into with VG10 was when I was scraping some duct tape adhesive off a half dozen tables with the aid of a spray bottle of 409 w/ bleach...I didn't have immediate access to a razor scraper, but I DID HAVE my constant companion VG10 Caly jr. and she was more than up to the task... :cool:

However, that night when I was putting her to bed in my dump tray I noticed some red rust spots peppered on the blade face & on the secondary nothing terribly major, but shocking nonetheless... :eek:

Immediately, I hit the flats with a green Scotchbrite and then finished some Mother's Chrome polish, then touched up the edge with Med., Fine, & UF Sharpmaker Rods-- I usually don't progress past the Med. rods for EDC usage, but in this case I wanted to polish away all the spots...

Anyways, I always figured it was the bleach in the 409-- but that's just anecdotal :confused: ...

In closing, I'm more careful with her around household cleansers now :o

[maliboy67]

Something that hasn't been said is the fact Spyderco seems to have the heat treat dead on for Vg-10. There is more than one manufacturer out there that makes a decent knife using excellent steel but missed on the heat treating. Vg-10 has been around for a while, has very good attributes and Spyderco seems to do an excellent heat treatment. This is a very important step that will turn a premium tool into a useless paper weight.

[SpeedHoles]

Something that hasn't been said is the fact Spyderco seems to have the heat treat dead on for Vg-10. There is more than one manufacturer out there that makes a decent knife using excellent steel but missed on the heat treating. Vg-10 has been around for a while, has very good attributes and Spyderco seems to do an excellent heat treatment. This is a very important step that will turn a premium tool into a useless paper weight.

This probably has a lot to do with what Sal was mentioning about the makers familiarity and comfort level with the steel. They have succeeded in taking it to level 10 of the Very Good scale. :p

[ejames13]

VG-10 is my favorite stainless. It's so easy to get wicked sharp, and the edge retention is still decent. Touch ups are a breeze, and it responds very well to a strop.

[zacmangray]

My experience with VG-10 has been great. I have only had a VG-10 blade for a couple years. So my knowledge is not as vast as others. In my opinion VG-10 has all the right properties you need in an edc knife. It's easy to sharpen, holds that edge for a decent time and the resistants to corrosion make VG-10 an awesome steel to have in your pocket.
I have a few different steels other then VG-10 and in my opinion it is the best all round use steel. For work, camp, hunt, garden, travel, food prep, personal hygiene, and everything else you use a sharp knife for.

[BostonTom]

I'm different then some of the forum members here. When it comes to steel and knives in general, I gravitate to the older, tried and true ones. I don't want any of the quirks with some of the higher end steels (M4, Hap 40, ZDP 189) I've read about. Nothing laminate or non stainless steel. However, I've missed out on some nice sprint runs etc. I understand the benefits of those type of steels too. I live very close to saltwater. Any knife could rust (except H1, I assume) but some have much more of a chance then others. Who knows, I'll probably change my mind at some point. I have and like S110V. S30V and Elmax.
VG10 is still my favorite. I'm no sharpening whiz but I can get VG10 extremely sharp on SM pretty easily. I don't use my knives heavy but I have had no problems with chipping or rolling. The edge on VG10 to lasts long enough. Longer then any of the Chinese steels (tenacious line), BD1 or 440. I've had chips in S30V, 154CM from just lightly tapping the blades against another by accident.
I gave my buddy a VG10 Endura. He uses the knife pretty hard. He's cutting open pallets of stock and everything else. The VG10 held up well. Needed sharpening. No real damage. Just some passes at 40 degrees on SM and cleaning. I did give him a lecture on how good the Spyderco is compared to his old junk knife. Maybe he's being more careful too.
I love VG10 and would buy more knives with the steel. From my own experience and everything I've read, it doesn't seem to have any bad qualities. It does everything well.

[Archimedes]

VG-10 has always been a very good performing steel. So has S30V. If your not a serious steel junkie some of the more esoteric steels can be harder to sharpen. Some of these steels tend to Patina, which some people certainly newer knife owners find disturbing, because they have been sold on the idea of stainless steel. I prefer personally theses more middle of the road steels that perform well have reasonable edge retention and are easier to sharpen. I like stainless steel as I like my blade to look shiny after cutting up a lemon.

I tend to look more at a knifes design qualities these days as long as the steel is above average like VG-10 or S30V. Certainly cool steel is interesting. Yet I prefer design quality for the task at hand, quality materials for the rest of the knife and strong lock reliability. The manufacturing capability at this point in time is bringing to market incredibly strong, light and superior performing knives at the production level. We are really as consumers getting the best of all worlds from Spyderco as they bring interesting designs coupled with state of the art manufacturing to the market. When you couple this with solid reliable steel choices like VG-10 you really can't go wrong.

[gdwtvb]

I to am a fan of VG-10. It was the first steel that I could ever get a really great edge on. I've never done hair whittling (or even tried) but VG-10 was the first I achieved an edge that cleanly shaved my forearm in one pass. I have learned to get other steels to that same level, but for me VG-10 is always the easiest steel for me to sharpen and return to 'hair popping' sharp.

As others have mentioned other steels have greater strengths in some areas, and perhaps VG-10 is the jack of all trades, master of none, but that's its strength. Great all around stainless steel.

Grizz