52100 Military

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The Mastiff
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby The Mastiff » Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:17 pm

It's inevitable that there will be some people who end up with this knife when it gets here that have no experience with 52100 who will be amazed at the performance, cutting and sharpening goodness they have. I expect a great deal of amazed people after this release. As usual they will sell very quickly.

joe

Philo Beddoe
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby Philo Beddoe » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:10 pm

The Mastiff wrote:It's inevitable that there will be some people who end up with this knife when it gets here that have no experience with 52100 who will be amazed at the performance, cutting and sharpening goodness they have.
Will agree with that.

Whats 52100's characteristics? Differences? Its a ball bearing steel. Also has a small amount of copper in it.

Corrosion resistance wont be a strong point. Should patina nicely.

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Last edited by Philo Beddoe on Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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senorsquare
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby senorsquare » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:14 pm

The Mastiff wrote:It's inevitable that there will be some people who end up with this knife when it gets here that have no experience with 52100 who will be amazed at the performance, cutting and sharpening goodness they have. I expect a great deal of amazed people after this release. As usual they will sell very quickly.

joe
I'll likely get one of these and it'll be my first experience with 52100. How does it stack up against CPM-Cruwear? I had a gray millie for a while and really liked that steel.

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farnorthdan
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby farnorthdan » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:23 pm

This is my most anticipated :spyder: of them all, I've really become enamored by the millie in the last year or so which is funny because when I first got into :spyder:'s a few years back I swore I would never get one, they just seemed to big but I've come to learn just how pocket-able they really are. I like how flat they ride.

I have zero experience with 52100 but am liking what I'm hearing so far, I will be grabbing at least one of these and depending on price may grab a couple so I have a pre-need squirreled away. I'm eager to hear others experience with this steel.
Happy to be part of this great forum and group of down to earth spyderco addicts, Thanks Sal and gang.
My Grails: Lum Tanto folder sprint, Sprint Persian(red), Captain, Manix 2 (M4), SB MT, PM2 M390, CF dodo, Manix2 (CF S90V),Manix2 XL S90V, Zowada CF Balance Rassenti Nivarna, Lil' Nilakka, Tuff, Police 4, Chinook 4, Caly HAP40 52100 Military, S110V Military, Any/All PM2 & Military sprints/exclusives I can get my grubby hands on :) :spyder: :) :spyder: :)

"We may look curious, homely, whatever, but we'll never be called unusable or undependable."

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Re: 52100 Military

Postby SpeedHoles » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:48 pm

The Mastiff wrote:It's inevitable that there will be some people who end up with this knife when it gets here that have no experience with 52100 who will be amazed at the performance, cutting and sharpening goodness they have. I expect a great deal of amazed people after this release. As usual they will sell very quickly.

joe


Exactly. And second hand prices for the Mule 1 will sky rocket!
I've been looking for another and they are hard to come by... probably shouldn't have said that because now everyone who just read that will be out looking for one as well! :o :p

I love my Mule 52100. In my experience the 52100 is very tough and great to work with. I've been enjoying it. Mine has rusted just a bit, but I haven't treated it the nicest (put away wet into sheath on many occasion when camping and whatnot). It definitely has less corrosion resistance than Cruwear, I'll say that, but that is of little concern to me.
Going back to Caly.

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farnorthdan
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby farnorthdan » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:12 pm

Is your MT developing any patina SH, any pics?
Happy to be part of this great forum and group of down to earth spyderco addicts, Thanks Sal and gang.
My Grails: Lum Tanto folder sprint, Sprint Persian(red), Captain, Manix 2 (M4), SB MT, PM2 M390, CF dodo, Manix2 (CF S90V),Manix2 XL S90V, Zowada CF Balance Rassenti Nivarna, Lil' Nilakka, Tuff, Police 4, Chinook 4, Caly HAP40 52100 Military, S110V Military, Any/All PM2 & Military sprints/exclusives I can get my grubby hands on :) :spyder: :) :spyder: :)

"We may look curious, homely, whatever, but we'll never be called unusable or undependable."

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The Mastiff
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby The Mastiff » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:28 pm

Philo Beddo, the copper is likely in there only as an impurity from recycled steel. It should have less abrasive wear resistance than Cruwear/CPM Cruwear but it will sharpen easier and have great edge stability. It is great for decently high hardness thinish, very sharp edges. At this it should be able to support lower edge angles than high vanadium type steels with lots of carbides though to be honest my uses aren't so demanding that I would want 7-9 degrees per side edges so thin that other steels can't support. Some knife uses in food work use and wood working tools need it but I can get by with 30 degrees inclusive with enough carbides in it to make a compromise like Cruwear.

As far as pure toughness and chopping I would defer to people who have done chopping with 52100 like Bodog. I haven't pushed it hard in chopping type tools so won't compare it to 3V or other steels used like 1080/SK5, 1084, etc.

I have axes, mauls, etc. and grew up using them heating our house and just have not gotten into chopping with knives. Too set in my ways I suppose.

It will rust more than Cruwear, yes. It can be pretty rusty to not so bad depending on finish, heat treat etc, just like any other steel. I'd put it close to 1080/SK5, 1095, etc. in that respect.

Joe

Edited: 30 degrees per side to 30 degrees inclusive. So obvious I probably didn't need to change it but for posterity sake or for future buyers doing research it might matter. :)
Last edited by The Mastiff on Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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farnorthdan
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby farnorthdan » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:41 pm

Good info Joe, thanks
Happy to be part of this great forum and group of down to earth spyderco addicts, Thanks Sal and gang.
My Grails: Lum Tanto folder sprint, Sprint Persian(red), Captain, Manix 2 (M4), SB MT, PM2 M390, CF dodo, Manix2 (CF S90V),Manix2 XL S90V, Zowada CF Balance Rassenti Nivarna, Lil' Nilakka, Tuff, Police 4, Chinook 4, Caly HAP40 52100 Military, S110V Military, Any/All PM2 & Military sprints/exclusives I can get my grubby hands on :) :spyder: :) :spyder: :)

"We may look curious, homely, whatever, but we'll never be called unusable or undependable."

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SpeedHoles
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby SpeedHoles » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:57 pm

farnorthdan wrote:Is your MT developing any patina SH, any pics?
Yeah, has quite a bit of patina and some small pitting that does not show up in most photos. I wouldn't be surprised if I saw a bit of rust if I removed the handle scales.
Going back to Caly.

ohcyclist
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby ohcyclist » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:23 am

Let us all hope this is a 1200 piece run.

Anyone on the spydercrew care to weigh in with a possible timeline these will show up on?

Bile Bob
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby Bile Bob » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:51 am

ohcyclist wrote:Let us all hope this is a 1200 piece run.
I don't think it is, Sal said it will be a 1000 piece run and 52100 sounds like a real pain to work with.

Heres the thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=68581&hilit=52100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quoted from that thread:

sal wrote:Thanx for the input. I told Annika to make them 62-63, but I thought to check with my "consultant steel junky's".

Thanx for the input Cliff. Our heat treater is a metallurgist. I'll share your info with him.

I plan to put it in a Millie Jim. Mostly because I wanted one in 52100 as a work knife on the mountain. I figured you and Joe would probably want one as well. So we have 3. We'll make 1000. It was a real PITA to find it rolled to the thickness wanted. It's also a bugger to work with in a production environment. Not too many production folders out there in 52100. I can see why.

sal

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Re: 52100 Military

Postby MacLaren » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:47 am

So, sometime in 2016?
Id really like to score one of these.

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Johnnie1801
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby Johnnie1801 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:19 pm

MacLaren wrote:So, sometime in 2016?
Id really like to score one of these.
Mac, I think if you score one of these then you'll have to send the rest of your knives to me because you won't need them anymore :D
Currently enjoying Spyderco's in - S30V, VG10, Super Blue, Cruwear x4, CTS XHP, S110V x2, M4 x3, S35VN, CTS 204P x2, S90V, HAP 40, K390, RWL34, MAXAMET, ZDP 189, REX 45


Jon

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Re: 52100 Military

Postby MacLaren » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:25 pm

Johnnie1801 wrote:
MacLaren wrote:So, sometime in 2016?
Id really like to score one of these.
Mac, I think if you score one of these then you'll have to send the rest of your knives to me because you won't need them anymore :D
Man, cant believe I didn't get the last Sprint Millie.
Im really wanting this 52100 :D

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bearfacedkiller
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby bearfacedkiller » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:43 pm

It is a basic carbon steel and will behave like one. It is gonna behave much more like Super Blue than Cruwear. I have a mule in 52100 and it is great. Easy to sharpen to a very keen edge and holds a hair popping edge well. Takes a patina almost instantly when used on food. If this knife is run at 62-63 then it is a slicer. I don't really care too much about toughness in this one. The Military is a slicey knife and this steel will support a thin edge at high sharpness. Edge stability is what is appealing to me about this run. I think that this knife will need to be run at acute angles to see the benefits of this steel.

I started a thread a long time ago asking for a carbon steel folder from Golden and the idea was not warmly received. I am stoked to see this happen. :D
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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anagarika
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby anagarika » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:40 am

I think it's finer than SB, from my sample it is.

Any chance Soyderco runs it zero bevel, as in original Nilakka? The 52100 should take zero bevel very well with the fine grain.
Chris :spyder:

Philo Beddoe
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby Philo Beddoe » Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:13 am

Thanks Joe..good info.

Seems this will be a good one to get and try out. Cruwear has been a great steel IMO.

aesmith
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby aesmith » Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:39 am

The Mastiff wrote:It's inevitable that there will be some people who end up with this knife when it gets here that have no experience with 52100 who will be amazed at the performance, cutting and sharpening goodness they have. I expect a great deal of amazed people after this release. As usual they will sell very quickly.
joe
How do you think it will compare with more commonly used non-stainless carbon steels, for example as used by Mora, Opinel or Joker?
Tony S
---------
Tony S

zhyla
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Re: 52100 Military

Postby zhyla » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:27 am

aesmith wrote: How do you think it will compare with more commonly used non-stainless carbon steels, for example as used by Mora, Opinel or Joker?
Tony S
Depends on the hardness of the blade you're comparing against. Sal said 62-63 Rc which is pretty hard and much harder than Opinels (57-59 Rc). The usual tradeoffs apply -- will hold an edge longer but chip easier etc.

52100 vs 1084, 1095, W2, etc of the same hardness... meh, the performance differences IMHO will be slight for an EDC blade.

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Re: 52100 Military

Postby bearfacedkiller » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:46 am

most knives out there in carbon steels are run at the 56-58 range to maximize the toughness with the exception usually being kitchen knives. I have used 1095 at 56-58 a lot and comparing anything like that to 52100 at 62-62 doesn't make much sense. You are usually only gonna see carbon steels run that hard in kitchen knives. The Super Blue Sprints might be the closest comparison.

It would be amazing if these were ground a bit thinner than a typical military.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?


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