"Tactical" gear

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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AllenETreat
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"Tactical" gear

Postby AllenETreat » Sun Dec 29, 2002 1:00 am

To : ALL -

I know most of you forumite(s) are

Law Enforcement, EMT's, and even some

servicemen/women ( both past & present )

While I find "tactical gear" a good

thing, it has it's place, I believe.


I've been outta "This Man's Army" some

19yrs ; I own many Spydies, but passed

on those I felt no longer applied to me,

now a civilan. Many have complained on

this forum about the "plain Jane" sheath

that comes with the Lum Tanto ; I find

no fault with it. Some may quip a "River

City Sheath" ( tactical sheath ) would

be better suited ; perhaps if I was

still a soldier ( 11Bravo, infantry <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>)

but I find little use for a "tactical"

sheath in a VERY "non-tactical"

situation. Let's look at "tactical"

flashlights : Surefire does make the

VERY best ( at close to $100 a "pop"

I don't see why this would not be so.)

But, for the actual amount of use I

make for a flashlight my Photon II in

turquois serve(s) me just fine. Perhaps

I'm just being prejudiced in writing

this, but, I believe everything has it's

time & place. Which Spydie is my

favorite? The C29SBK "Cricket" SE. I

could not find justification for

a "Police" ( I'm not one, but it's a

FINE blade. ) or "Military" ( I no

longer "serve".) "Tactical" gear may be

the "vogue" thing at the moment. But ask

yourself sometime, if your "tactical"

flashlight(s), watche(s), pen(s) & such

are REALLY all that valid in whatever

profession you may ( or may have )

served.


What say the augerers?





-AET<img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

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ken
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Postby ken » Sun Dec 29, 2002 2:43 pm

VERY GOOD SUBJECT MATTER!

TACTICAL - over used abused word.

But I have to start with a question. What makes an "item" tactical and another not? Is it because it's painted black or camo? Or what? It goes beyond ridiculous! In the case of clothing, luggage, pens, walets, ect.
I believe it's just a lable that they slap on things, and charge extra for. I guess some items like the flashlight you talked about are high quality an designed for tactical use, and that's fine but most of us will never see a tactical situation, and I for one cannot justify the expense for some of these "things". My 6 doller mag light works just fine. I'm sure that others will have a need for these items.

IMO a lot of this tactical stuff is bought with the thought that if it is designed for military or police and have that "lable" than it must be the best you can get and therefore we have to have it.

On the other hand take the spydie "military" I like the features of this knife-thin profile,good size blade, the steel, the handle, over sized hole, ect. I feel that if I get one it's because the features and not the "name" - Put the same features on another knife and it's no longer tactical??????
I've owned the police model and now the endura and I really don't find alot of difference. Is one tactical and the other not?
Very interesting subject, I can't wait to see others opinion!

ken

Sword and Shield
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Postby Sword and Shield » Sun Dec 29, 2002 4:09 pm

The term is kind of useless, except as a quick identifier for a class of knives. If I were discussing knives with someone fairly knowledgeable, the phrase "tactical knife" instantly sets it apart from "traditional knife" or "working knife".

Overall, I don't really care for such a concept. I've carried a $10 Mag for years, camping in 9 states and Canada. That one is all I ever have needed, or likely will need. It is my "tactical flashlight".

Other examples include camo-painted knives, or knives coated in black, gray and other colors. For the 1% of the US population that needs them, that's fine. For the other 99%, it's just a way to show off. "Look, Ma! A TACTICAL knife!" <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

I have never known a hunter or camper that needed or wanted a black-coated blade, or a camo flashlight. If nothing else, you want bright colors in case you drop them. Ever try to find a Realtree camouflage knife in the leaves?
I am of the school that you carry what works. If it fits someone's definition of "Tactical", so be it.

Never underestimate the impossible.

yog
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Postby yog » Sun Dec 29, 2002 4:51 pm

Good topic.
I feal the same way about my Spyderco Military. I carried it a lot when I worked the dirty end of construction sites. Now I work the smarter end of the street I very rarely carry my Military, but I don't have the heart to pass it on as it's one of my all time favourites <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
Now it's a rare day I carry anything over 3", most are sub-3". Horses for courses.


Walk softly, carry a big stick.

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J Smith
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Postby J Smith » Sun Dec 29, 2002 4:57 pm

I remember seeing something that Jeff Cooper wrote on this matter.Something about that everything that you see now has the word tactical in front of even though there is nothing tactical about it.I will try to find it and post it.It was in Coppers coner in Guns and Ammo.
I just bought a pair of TACTICAL tennis shoes.

SOOOO!,I see the internet is on the computer now!....Homer Simpson

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chinook
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Postby chinook » Sun Dec 29, 2002 5:44 pm

'Tactical' seems to be in the design or rather the appearance of things nowadays rather than the functional engineerimg of the tool. I have found no need of a 'tactical' Spydie Military butt I find the 'utilitarian' design of the knife extremely useful around my property and garden, especially when I'm wearing my gloves. The idea of engineering the grip and lock for strength and dependability during violent stabbing, slashing, twisting manuevers can only help me in my use of the tool. The blackening of the blade or camo handle color is irrelevant to my use butt could be of some value to others. Just having the colors doesn't make it 'tactical' unless it is a total package.

Butt a 'small' non-tactical knife is not what I need for a lot of my chores around here. A large non-tactical would be fine as long as it has a strong lock, good steel, and grippy handle. (sounds kinda 'tactical' don't it?)

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vampyrewolf
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Postby vampyrewolf » Sun Dec 29, 2002 6:13 pm

As others have said, "Tactical" is over used.

Sure, some may consider something like the millie Tactical, but we( <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> EDUs) find it great for ultility. Just like a "Self Defense" tool is what ever who have on you when the SHTF. The Gunting, Civ, or an ASP are no good to you sitting at home while you run your <font color=black>a</font>ss off getting out of any situation.

My $20 MiniMag 2AA works for the moment, but I'm upgrading to an X5MT as soon as I have $60 sitting around. Why? better throw and better color. Who cares about the 2000lbs+ crush weight and it being made out of a "solid billit of aircraft aluminum"... it puts out a better light than my Mag. Water proof to 150metres? point? Saskatchewan has 1000s of lakes up north, but down in the central prov there aren't any water sources deeper than about 50feet. The Mag will do that, hell a cheap duracell light will do 50' .

My Word, My Honour, is my Life.

Edited by - vampyrewolf on 12/30/2002 2:32:25 PM

Mt Goat
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Postby Mt Goat » Sun Dec 29, 2002 7:31 pm

Sword and Shield,

Excellent point! I am a camper, hiker and backpacker and a more colorful handle would help in recovery if lost. I wish Spyderco would add more color options to their knives. This would be beneficial from a marketing, collecting and practical usage standpoint. A folded black handled knife is hard to find in the woods or the dark.

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Postby Sword and Shield » Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:07 pm

I recommend an old Scout trick, MtGoat. Ready for this? It's pretty hi-tech, so pay close attention.

1.) Obtain bright colored flat shoe lace (Day-Glo orange, yellow, bright green).
2.) Tie lace through lanyard hole.

Got it? Good. <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> Lots of knives have been lost by people not following this simple technique.

Never underestimate the impossible.

Mt Goat
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Postby Mt Goat » Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:13 pm

Thanks for the pointer! A more colorful handle would be more aesthetically pleasing though!

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chinook
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Postby chinook » Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:31 pm

Back again...
On flashlights or torches as Sal uses the mother country term. Now the term 'tactical' has a bit more definition to it. A weapon mount system or a retina withering beam or an infrared assist on a night vision scope can be defined as such very easily, butt the troops or LEO also need low intensity map readers and unobtrusive path lights for covert or closeup searches. Too much light can be worse than too little.
I love my SF 6P(P61) and 6R butt I would not give them to my wife to use as she turns one on and leaves it on. I sweep the way and release, sweep and release. A 123 battery lasts me a whole week camping, a trip to the can for her. She is better served by the Eveready pictured. A surprisingly good beam and a good area lite in the raised postion and uses any AA's which were included for $8 at Walmart.
The Photon has served me and friends and family well(mostly in white) for little immediate needs.
No one 'torch' is going to illume all your needs. I hope they keep pushing the 'tactical' side of these because the side effect is better lights for other applications.

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AllenETreat
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Postby AllenETreat » Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:32 pm

How about some "psychedelic day glo"

handled Spydies?<img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> Crickets? Delicas?

The possibilities would be endless!!!<img src="tongue.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>




-AET <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

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AllenETreat
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Postby AllenETreat » Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:34 pm

How about some "psychedelic day glo"

handled Spydies?<img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> Crickets? Delicas?

The possibilities would be endless!!!<img src="tongue.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>




-AET <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

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dialex
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Postby dialex » Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:32 am

How about some handles that glow in the dark? I think that would be great for hiking and camping?
I also got bored of seeing tons of stuff (mostly bad stuff) with such labels as "tactical", "swat", "navy seals" (I could bet that those guys at the Seals don't carry the very most of the stuff labeled "extensively tested by...&quot<img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>
I was even wondering those days what makes a knife tactical?

pyton357ru
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Postby pyton357ru » Mon Dec 30, 2002 8:52 am

Just couldn't cach what is the problem -- that the word "tactical" is becoming a guaranteed way to sell things, or that there is too much tactical stuff whish is not really needed by users?
If second -- IMHO it is definitly nice to have a very spectialised knfe, which perfectly suits your needs. But. Sometimes you can be sure, that you will do only what the knife is intended to. Sometimes you couldn't. Today you open a pack of juice with your knife. Tomorrow you may be attacked in the dark street, and while opening your SAK, so comfortable for making sandwiches... Good if you managed to escape.
This is the truth. Knives are carried not only by campers and travellers in no-crime places. In case of really bad situation you'll have to deal with what you have on yourself. And if you have never had to defend yourself(like most of people probably) -- no one can guarantee that you won't need it. So choosing a knife useble both as utility and as a defense does't seem to be unwise idea.
And about the "tactical" gear -- well you check what you are buing before paying? You see(feel, try on, taste,)what you paying for? You know what do you need? If your answer is "yes" -- just relax, this time they didn`t came for you. If don't -- fool and his money -- old situation. This is like gravity.

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AllenETreat
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Postby AllenETreat » Mon Dec 30, 2002 3:10 pm

KenN & python357RU -

Point(s) taken & duly noted for the

"record" it's just that, to me,

the "tactical" "label" reeks of

"Ramboism"<img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>




"For my life, my love & my Lady is the

sea!"



-AET<img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

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java
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Postby java » Mon Dec 30, 2002 6:19 pm

I can name that tune in three notes, Allen! Brandy - Looking Glass - 1972…… Or was that just a segue to discuss the Sea and "tactical diving". After all the Faire Lady Glasshartt is now the proud owner of a Boker Tactical Dive knife. (Hmmm Tactical for the close in little fish work. Better see if there’s a strategic model for that long range power projection against the big fish with sharp pointy teeth. <img src="http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~mmartins/smilies/chuckle.gif">
)

As I admire Mrs Java lounging about here in her Vickies Secret tactical woodland forest camouflage negligee (almost didn't see her there - the camo works so well) sippin’ a breve mochiato from my tactical, man-portable, BC1 coated S30V, covert, caffeine containment vessel, insulated, large, with FRN liquid suppression system, top-mounted, I was just thinkin', “Yeeeeehaw!, Tactical ain’t just for knives and tennis shoes any more!”

I am amazed at what passes under the term tactical today but most of my sentiment is already expressed rather eloquently by the members here. Good topic and interesting discussion. In another life, my work in the Air Force gave me a clear understanding of what passed for tactical weapons and power projection. Homeland defense and short range power projection is tactical and the long range stuff is strategic. Although there is a difference in employment and tactics the two frequently cross boundaries and weapons have been used interchangeably. Sooooo. With my military logic (now there’s an oxymoron), I can see why the civilian confusion regarding the use of the term "tactical runs rampant.

IMO, tactical has become a buzzword designed to promote the sales of almost anything - utilitarian or otherwise – especially if it looks dark, covert, or military - and anything regarding its employment as a tactical weapon, tool, or implement is often secondary. I agree with Ken that once we tire of hearing the term, another will take it’s place. Let’s just hope java doesn’t get to pick the new terminology! <img src="http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~mmartins/smilies/googly.gif">


<b><font color="blue">"A hole-less knife is a soul-less knife is a whole less knife" <i>-Javanese proverb</i></font></b>

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Postby fredswartz » Mon Dec 30, 2002 7:23 pm

Alan: You sure know how to start a controversial thread! I would like to change "tactical" to "survival". Having just gotten back from a hunting trip where I almost froze, I have my list of options. First, GoreTex/Thinsulate boots, layered clothing with a hood; A watch cap and GoreTex thinsulate gloves. A mini Maglight, waterproof matches, a length of good rope, 2 sharp Spyderco blades and food. I usually can stuff all these things into a fanny pack and into my pockets. Last but not least is a Model 70 Winchester 30-06. Also take several large trash bags and latex gloves for gutting deer. We stay out from daylight til dark and use a whistle or a handgun to signal for help. This is about as high tech as I am accostomed to execept for a "D Cell" strobe which is also used for emergencies. Jerry

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Postby Rex G » Mon Dec 30, 2002 8:22 pm

I agree the term "tactical" is used overly much, to the point it has lost its meaning. I suppose "utility" is just not trendy enough, or does not sound "bad" enough. The USMC "Fighting Utility Knife" was named in the 1940's, and is just as "tactical" today as then. Oops, I said "tactical"....


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