Newbie Question

[average-Joe]

Please, I'm by far a total amateur sharpening knives. Originally I wanted to just send my knives back to be sharpened. Then reading so much it makes no sense so I bought a sharpmaker. I personally think my amateur skills with patience I've seen an improvement from my sharpness vs the factory.
That being said, again I'm brand new to sharpening. Should all my spydercos being new with factory edges be sharpened on the 40 degree angle side? I want to get my Hungarian and Vallotton really sharp and again I think I see a small improvement already. I even bought ultra fine stones. Do I always pick 30 degree? I started using the sharpie idea even but I guess my skills lie elsewhere because I haven't gotten them to be terrific. I have a older lady friend who is skilled at knives, and not once has she told me the knife wasn't dull to what she's used to. Could that be based on the types of steel she would be used to verses edgier newer steels since almost all my knives are the latest spydercos?

[farnorthdan]

Its said that most :spyder:'s come 15 degrees +/- per side or 30 inclusive. On my new ones, (if I decide not to re-profile out of the box) I will use the 30 slots primarily then do a nice lite 40 micro bevel, very lite and just a half dozen strokes per side.

edit: almost forgot, I mostly use only the brown rods, but that's just me...

[average-Joe]

Brown rods? The medium ones?

[farnorthdan]

Brown rods? The medium ones?

Yep, I hardly ever use the fine rods and don't even own the extra fine, I do have a set of Diamond rods but again dont use those very much, if I'm going to re-profile I use my edge pro apex, its just so much faster and cuts such a nice bevel.

[average-Joe]

I'm new and just want to learn to sharpen. IMHO again being an amateur I don't want to have to learn to reprofile a brand new product. I think if I ever do it's worth $5 to send it in. I'm sure that will change over time. I used to shop not by knives as much as who will resharpen them. I've come a away from that thought buying a sharpmaker. But still just want to learn one skill before moving on to another.

[average-Joe]

I was reading that Spyderco uses excellent steel so sharpen at 30 degrees is fine. I just tried a few swipes at 30 using all my stones. Seems pretty darn sharp. Maybe not like some of the pros here get but shaves arm hair off pretty good. Sure couldn't say that before I sharpened.

[awa54]

You'll find that lots of variables go in to the decision on how you want to set the bevel on your blades. Light duty blades that need to slice more than be rugged, will want a lower angle bevel and may not need a micro bevel, whereas blades you want to use harder (or just not have to resharpen as frequently) will benefit from either a micro bevel, a more obtuse main bevel, or most often both. Lets not even talk about convex edges

I would personally do 30deg. main bevel with a 40deg. microbevel on all of my sturdier knives and 30deg. with no microbevel on my blades that won't ever see harsh use. The only kitchen knives I use the Sharpmaker on are European paring knives, those get 30deg. no microbevel, others are freehand at whatever feels right for the blade grind (usually 20deg. or lower).

I feel like getting the diamond (or CBN) rods and setting a 30deg. primary bevel is worth doing, once you get the hang of the Sharpmaker it isn't very difficult... at least on knives that start with a symmetric grind that isn't too obtuse. Re-setting a bevel with the brown/medium rods is a waste of time and effort IMO, trying to do this is likely to make you feel like sharpening is a difficult and dreary task, when in reality the right tools and some practice will have you getting a nice edge on most knives in just a few minutes.

[average-Joe]

Most of what you say makes sense I'm not 100% sure of the lingo.
So in a nut shell you got to tell me "like a dummy" is it safe to say on my knives for now....
If I want it to be a sharp slicer doesn't get used for very rugged use 30 degree?
If I want to maintain the edge longer and maybe not resharpen a lot 40 degree?

[awa54]

Most of what you say makes sense I'm not 100% sure of the lingo.
So in a nut shell you got to tell me "like a dummy" is it safe to say on my knives for now....
If I want it to be a sharp slicer doesn't get used for very rugged use 30 degree?
If I want to maintain the edge longer and maybe not resharpen a lot 40 degree?

That's *my* opinion :D ...others have their own opinions and in practice I sharpen each knife I own as I feel benefits its design and materials, rather than just having two standards. However I've sharpened for at least 40 years and have a good handle on many things that make for getting a good edge, but even old hands need to turn to the true gurus sometimes; Not long ago I was the one here looking for advice on how to get a really fine edge on a few of the newer high carbide stainless alloys (thanks again to all who gave pointers!).

We all have different definitions of "hard" or "easy" use, so you have to really try things and see how they work out for you. My regimen is this: my prettier Spydercos (except for the SB sprints) are all at 30 degrees inclusive, with no microbevel, or a very slight convex microbevel applied with a hard leather strop loaded with a compound called Yellow Stone. My stouter blades usually have a fairly long convex bevel that begins almost parallel to the primary grind of the blade and progressively turns in until it ends in something approximating a 35-40 degree apex. The only Spyderco I have given this treatment to is my Manix 2. For blades that I want to be slicing lasers, I freehand as low a bevel angle as seems appropriate to the blade shape/steel combo and then apply a subtle convex profile, this works best with stuff like Blue Super, or other high carbon steels, though AUS8 with a good HT responds fairly well too, just can't thin the edge as much. Shallow angle edges like this are fantastic for cutting soft material, but are easy to damage on harder stuff and require frequent touch-ups to maintain that last degree of cutting ability that this kind of geometry allows, also not all steels are capable of supporting that fine an edge, so in some cases you are much better off with the comparatively obtuse factory grind...

Sharpening with a system sharpener like the Sharpmaker is a great way to get in to this part of the hobby, if you start to really have a feel for the metal and want to progress farther, then you can start to experiment with freehand sharpening, different systems and different stone materials, OTOH if you just want functionally sharp knives with minimal time and effort spent the Sharpmaker is an excellent final destination!

[bearfacedkiller]

Basically, the lower the angle the sharper the edge and the higher the angle the more durable the edge. However, the two angle options offered by the sharpmaker serve another purpose and that is to simplify sharpening. You need to understand the bevel and microbevel concept to really utilize the sharpmaker to its fullest. Most people who use the sharpmaker run a 30 degree back bevel and a 40 degree microbevel. When the microbevel gets too big you go back with the diamond rods and reset the 30 degree bevel and then start over. This makes keeping a knife sharp mind bogglingly simple once you have it figured out. The rest is just establishing a fair amount of muscle memory.

Watch the sharpmaker video and make sure you get the bevel and microbevel figured out. This forum and the web should have a good bit of info on it too. That is the key to the sharpmaker.

Whatever you do make sure you take the time to figure this out. Sharpening your knives is so very rewarding and you really never seem to stop getting better at it. I still can't understand people sending their knives in to be sharpened. I leave the house every single day with a knife that is sharper than they come from the factory. I sharpen regularly and couldn't imagine having my knife sharpened for me a few times a year. Keep at it and you will get there and ask away, we are here to help. :D

I gotta ask. You are off the grid but online? I gotta figure that one out. I think the internet is the one electronic thing I can't give up.

[average-Joe]

I really truly appreciate your patience on a question that's been asked a ton.
I'm 42 my wife and I have a older lady friend who was a butcher meat processor and taxidermist. She's a hunter and really knows knives. I really appreciate knowledge a lot. It's rarely shared these days. After I master the sharpmaker I may get her to teach me stones and such. She laughs (nicely) at my blades that I think are razor sharp.

I have no need to be a pro but anything in life worth having too me is worth gaining knowledge. I think I understand now a lot better. I don't claim to be the smartest but I do appreciate wisdom.

I think on my Taichung knives I'm going to sharpen them at 30 and my heavy cutters like my delica and para I'll start at 40.

[average-Joe]

I also wanted to add I think newbies like me make the ultra uber sharp the main point. But I'd assume a very well sharpened knife capable of cutting the intended item well is more important. Crazy sharp maybe just a little testosterone booster lol

[noseoil]

I would agree that 30 degrees will be a good edge for most of your cutting. Especially starting out, just keep it simple & learn how it feels to get a good edge. Nothing wrong with running 30 degrees on most of your stuff to get the hang of things & how each blade feels in the hand and on the stone. Once you've done this for a while & on different knives, you might try your hand at re-profiling a blade, but do it on a cheap one first to make any mistakes on something not as good. It's fun to see a good working edge come out of a dull one.

Re-profiling is something else. Diamonds, patience, a magic marker, good light & a magnifying loupe are what you should have on hand. The loupe I use is the type used for viewing slide film, about 8x, & is really helpful to see the edge with some black magic marker on it. It might take several sessions over several evenings to fully change the bevel, just keep plugging away at it until the entire edge is new & shiny.

[average-Joe]

I'm a long way off from reprofiling lol!
I'll get these blades sharp and once I do the dumb questions will restart lol

[SG89]

Once you get the hang of it you will be able to trust your own skills and get the edges however you want them. It is fun to learn new skills. Especially spydie skills lol

[awa54]

I'm a long way off from reprofiling lol!
I'll get these blades sharp and once I do the dumb questions will restart lol

Seriously, the diamond or CBN rods make reprofiling an already well ground blade quick and easy, I set the bevel on every new knife I get and with the CBN rods it probably took me less than 20 minutes total, including setting up and clean up afterward, to establish an even 15dps primary bevel on my Sage 1, forget multiple sessions!

With the Sharpmaker, reprofiles on blades that aren't in need of major stock removal (read; most Spydercos) are really not all that time consuming and the process is just like "standard" sharpening, but with one more step using the coarser abrasive rods. I don't use the corners for non-serrated blades with the CBN rods, just the flats, but they still take stock off at a surprising rate (the corners can have their plated-on abrasive scraped off more easily than the flats, either way a light touch is best with plated on abrasives like the diamond/CBN Sharpmaker rods, firmer pressure doesn't make them cut any faster).

Don't sell the PM2 and Delica short, the edge geometry of these tall FFG blades will work very well with a low angle edge! If those two are your beaters, then microbevelling at 40deg. is a good call though.

[average-Joe]

I come across rude sometimes but it's never meant that way. I ask questions with respect as to learn more...
If Spyderco knives are so loved for being excellent from the box why would one reprofile a brand new knife? Keep in mind again I'm a newbie to sharpening and barely can sharpen (getting better practicing however!) if it made the knife so much better wouldn't they come from the box that way? Is this only an advantage to those who take knives very serious or does the "average-Joe" really benefit?
I'm all for learning if it's useful. A few extra $$$ and a little time doesn't scare me away from anything.
I just don't understand why I'd buy a $100-$200 knife then unqualified me changes the factory design.

[average-Joe]

double post

[SG89]

Basically everyone has their own preference so some are fine with the edge straight out of the box and some like to get a crazy sharp edge and will use all of the sharpmaker stones to make it that way including reprofiling. You have to find out what works for you everyone is different.

[SpyderNut]

Basically everyone has their own preference so some are fine with the edge straight out of the box and some like to get a crazy sharp edge and will use all of the sharpmaker stones to make it that way including reprofiling. You have to find out what works for you everyone is different.

+1

I am more than satisfied with the factory edge, but as Spydergirl88 mentioned, you'll have to see which edge suits you better.