Spyderco Consumer Announcement

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
harronek
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#21

Post by harronek »

As a business owner myself I fully understand and support this move .
But Spyderco please don't try and spin this into a "we are only doing this to make our customers life better " type of thing .
The bottom line is that this is being done to help and strengthen Spyderco and to stop a number of big retailers becoming dominant in the market .
Retail competition from multiple outlets is not only good for the consumer it has huge business benefits for the producer .
When only one or two retailers sell the majority of a companies product they end up with a huge amount of purchasing power and influence .
Just look at the supermarket multiples worldwide to see what I mean , they have developed a system that has turned producers into price takers , not price setters .

Ken
Last edited by harronek on Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wrdwrght
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#22

Post by wrdwrght »

Perhaps I've missed something. I think a number of online sellers of this or that mechandise invite buyers to put a desired item into the basket so as to see the price that is too low to advertise. Is this not a response to MAP? Does this invitation somehow gouge the buyer?
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#23

Post by The Deacon »

I could be wrong, or I could be missing something, but considering that there are only a small number of dealers now who discount Spyderco by more than 40%, (Cutlery Shoppe and Amazon being the two that come to mind) I don't see this as having much impact on the consumer.
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michaelm466
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#24

Post by michaelm466 »

wrdwrght wrote:Perhaps I've missed something. I think a number of online sellers of this or that mechandise invite buyers to put a desired item into the basket so as to see the price that is too low to advertise. Is this not a response to MAP? Does this invitation somehow gouge the buyer?
This was done early with Benchmades MAP Pricing, to get around it, however this was later put a stop to, by Benchmade and later ZT by telling the retailer using coupons or "price in cart" practices that they would be dropped by Benchmade as a seller if they continued. CRK and Strider also don't allow coupons or any other kind of discounts from their MAP pricing, so I can only assume Spyderco will follow suit and not allow retailers to do this either.

I also don't understand the "This bump up in price will make it easier to spot fakes" argument, if I'm a vendor selling fakes, obviously I'm not going to keep my prices where they are if all Spyderco's are going up, I'm going to bump my prices up with them, more profit for me and less suspicious for the buyer.
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Chopping Broccoli
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#25

Post by Chopping Broccoli »

powernoodle wrote:What's with all of the smiley faces? Price-fixing never benefits the consumer. This is nothing to be happy about.
Agreed! We certainly are a loyal group when we applaud and thank the company for instituting a policy that will likely drive the price we pay up, or at the very least, make it much more difficult to find a "deal." I love Spyderco and this will not prevent me from continuing to purchase Spyderco knives, but I'm not going to applaud or post smiley faces about it.
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michaelm466
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#26

Post by michaelm466 »

David Lowry wrote:If you do the math, the MSRP Of the Delica is $109. 60% of that is $65. The MSRP of the Chaparall is $195. 60% of that is $117. This will not really have any affect on us. Doesn't bother me at all.

MarkG, good to see ya buddy. :)

Thanks for the heads up Spyderco/Kristi.
With 2 minutes of searching I can find both of those for $11 and $23 off those prices respectively, lets look at something with higher MSRP like the Proficent of $489.95 I can find it for $260 it will be going up to $294 (an Extra $34) Between those 3 that's an extra Delica or Endura I could be getting for the same price before MAP.
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PM1
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#27

Post by PM1 »

MAP helps protect the Spyderco name from fraud and helps protect dealers from predatory online pricing. As far as the consumer goes, it helps protect them from getting fake Spyderco knives, but it does eliminate their ability to get a great deal.

The way I see it, the street price of most bread and butter :spyder: models won't change too much. However, the high-end models where the MSRP is way in the stratosphere will definitely be impacted. On the consumer side, certain high-end Spydies could easily move up $50-150. Consumers will also lose the excitement factor of great sales, like Black Friday, since the normal "street price" = "MAP price".

On the dealer side (since many are required to buy the high-end models) they could end up being stuck with these sky-high priced knives forever without the ability to sell them at a reasonable price point. At a minimum, Spyderco should allow dealers to blow-out any models that get discontinued, so they have some chance to get their money back. At the maximum, Spyderco should adjust the totally unrealistic MSRP of their high-end models so dealers aren't handcuffed by the MAP pricing and consumers can still get the highest quality :spyder: designs at an acceptable price.
Last edited by PM1 on Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#28

Post by Bodog »

I don't think it'll stop scammers at all. They'll just make more money selling the knock offs and it'll be harder to spot them because they'll sell them at the same price as everyone else. No more "too good to be true" sales.
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PM1
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#29

Post by PM1 »

michaelm466 wrote:I also don't understand the "This bump up in price will make it easier to spot fakes" argument, if I'm a vendor selling fakes, obviously I'm not going to keep my prices where they are if all Spyderco's are going up, I'm going to bump my prices up with them, more profit for me and less suspicious for the buyer.
I disagree. Because virtually all the vendors will have a similar price on the knife, there will be little to no incentive to buy from unknown or dodgy vendors on Ebay or dubious online sites. Would you buy from a 100% legit and well known dealer in your area or wangsgreatbargain.con if the price was the same? The answer is obvious.
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Blerv
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#30

Post by Blerv »

Bodog wrote:I don't think it'll stop scammers at all. They'll just make more money selling the knock offs and it'll be harder to spot them because they'll sell them at the same price as everyone else. No more "too good to be true" sales.
Fakes are EASY to spot, or at least avoid. You just buy from places that don't deal with fakes.

Now people will have to deal with quality businesses that have been selling Spyderco knives over a decade. In my experience besides a freak sale here or there on eBay few have been able to meet some of the aggressive dealers which sell at 40% off MSRP anyways.
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GoldenSpydie
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#31

Post by GoldenSpydie »

I appreciate being given advance notice.

However, and maybe I'm just being dense and failing to understand the good in MAP enforcement, but this greatly disappoints me. It seems like Spyderco is just following the lead of all the other knife companies, which is not, I will remind you, what Spyderco became famous for.

Once again, I'm probably overlooking something important that forces all knife companies to resort to MAP, but I, personally, do not see the problem with a handful of online dealers monopolizing the industry if that is the most cost-efficient way to get Spydercos to consumers. I do not understand what sort of double-think Orwelian logic is used to justify announcing the enforcement of price guidelines and, in the same post, promising to continue to bring us products at a fair price. In my humble opinion, a "fair price" constitutes allowing the market to determine said price, not imposing an overarching rule.

Flame shield up. ;)

ETA: If dealers are allowed to discount the price once we add an item to the cart, or if they are allowed to provide discount codes, I'm ok with it. If this is the case, please disregard the above.
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this_is_nascar
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#32

Post by this_is_nascar »

With this announcement, I feel like I'm on the Benchmade forum.
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GoldenSpydie
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#33

Post by GoldenSpydie »

The Deacon wrote:I could be wrong, or I could be missing something, but considering that there are only a small number of dealers now who discount Spyderco by more than 40%, (Cutlery Shoppe and Amazon being the two that come to mind) I don't see this as having much impact on the consumer.
With all due respect, I think that you are, indeed, missing something.

Let's say I want a Chaparral 3 Stepped Titanium (not the blue one). I could get one for $244.99 right now at Blade HQ.

MSRP for this same knife is $564.95. If I wait until after January 1 to buy this same exact knife, from the same exact dealer, the price will jump to $338.97 (0.6 x MSRP). This is a difference of $93.98, which, in my book, is pretty significant if you're getting the same knife one day too late.

Many other knives (I checked the Rubicon and black Southard) will increase by $30 to $35. This is not quite as significant, but it does add up.

Anyway, I don't mind all that much, and I hope that it hasn't come off that way. What I don't like is the assertion that it is good for consumers, unless someone can prove to me how paying $94 more is great.
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#34

Post by bearfacedkiller »

This is about protecting distributors and vendors and the relationships with them. A manufacturer is dependent on its distribution network to move it's product. If Spyderco is doing this then I am gonna tell myself that forces in the market are forcing them to do this but this does not benefit the consumer or end user except that it supports the manufacturer, distributors and vendors who we need to stay in business.

If we are unable to get a discount below the MAP then what we would actually have is price fixing which is very different. It seems to me that other companies in the industry who implemented MAP pricing have actually implemented price fixing. When BM went to MAP it was as easy as calling your preferred vendor to get the actual price and some retailer's websites said that right on them. Then one day BM changed their policy and told vendors to stick to the MAP or else. This sounds like price fixing to me. If the majority of the industry is fixing prices then where are we at? No free market?
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JAfromMN
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#35

Post by JAfromMN »

powernoodle wrote:What's with all of the smiley faces? Price-fixing never benefits the consumer. This is nothing to be happy about.

Its got me worried too man.

I hope they don't price me out of my favorite hobby.
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Chopping Broccoli
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#36

Post by Chopping Broccoli »

bearfacedkiller wrote:This is about protecting distributors and vendors and the relationships with them.
This is exactly it. I used to work in a SCUBA shop and almost all SCUBA manufactures have MAP policies. This is done solely for the benefit of the dealers because when one dealer undercuts the price and gets a lot of business online, the rest of the dealers start to cry to the manufacturer and say it isn't fair for Company XYZ to sell for this amount and how can they compete with those prices, yada yada. Dealers can threaten manufacturer that they will drop the product line and replace it with one that is more profitable that has pricing protection. Or potential dealers that Spyderco might want to start stocking the product line elect not to because the profit margin is not good enough without these pricing protections. MAP solves all of this for the manufacturer and the dealers. The only loser in this scenario is the consumer. :mad:

Isn't Spyderco in the process of undergoing a large manufacturing expansion? Are they looking at increased production numbers and essentially raising the prices across the board of what the consumer ends up paying? That's a bit of a gamble.
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paladin
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#37

Post by paladin »

Kristi stated that many models will not increase in MSRP...they can lower MSRP's too. ;)

Regardless, with MAP, Golden is the final arbiter in what you will be able to purchase a Spyderco for in 2016.

I'm cool with trusting Sal, Gail, & Eric determine what I can purchase their product for, especially if it well help with the fidelity of the brand moving forward....

Isn't that what it boils down to? Trust, that is?
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#38

Post by SpyderNut »

paladin wrote:Kristi stated that many models will not increase in MSRP...they can lower MSRP's too. ;)

Regardless, with MAP, Golden is the final arbiter in what you will be able to purchase a Spyderco for in 2016.

I'm cool with trusting Sal, Gail, & Eric determine what I can purchase their product for, especially if it well help with the fidelity of the brand moving forward....

Isn't that what it boils down to? Trust, that is?
+1. We'll said. I suppose this is essentially what I had in mind when I posted my initial response indicating support to this change. If you think about it, Sal has built a very successful company based on integrity and honesty and with the consumer in mind. I find it very doubtful that the change to MAP pricing is just a subtle scheme to increase profit margins off of the backs of the same consumers. Do I want to spend more on Spyderco knives? No, I would honestly rather not. But, I do have to have some measure of faith in Sal and Co. that this will somehow be a dynamic change for the good. (And, FWIW, I do like to use smiley faces too. :))
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#39

Post by GoldenSpydie »

As for the people saying that it will somehow impact the counterfeiters, I would ask you to consider this:

Alibaba already sells its counterfeit Spydies for ridiculously low prices--less than $30 for PM2s, etc. Fixed pricing cannot and will not affect this, as the bulk of counterfeit retailers are already selling extremely far below street price for a legit model. It also probably won't affect Ebay counterfeit sellers, because someone could pass off a knife as used to justify the lower price. Furthermore, why can't fake sellers just price the fakes at MAP? Fakes are convincing enough these days that people new to Spyderco might not question it.
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Re: Spyderco Consumer Announcement

#40

Post by El Gato »

+1. We'll said. I suppose this is essentially what I had in mind when I posted my initial response indicating support to this change. If you think about it, Sal has built a very successful company based on integrity and honesty and with the consumer in mind. I find it very doubtful that the change to MAP pricing is just a subtle scheme to increase profit margins off of the backs of the same consumers. Do I want to spend more on Spyderco knives? No, I would honestly rather not. But, I do have to have some measure of faith in Sal and Co. that this will somehow be a dynamic change for the good. (And, FWIW, I do like to use smiley faces too. :))[/quote]

+2 This. For sure. :) :)
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