Spyderco Consumer Announcement

[sal]

I purchase Merrell shoes for hiking and they practice MAP...I don't bother with eBay, or any other dealer...I buy direct from Merrell...they are well worth the money...and I don't hear about a lot of cloned Merrells stompin around-- so I think MAP can work, works for me at least.[/quote]

Hi Paladin,

I too buy Merrell's.....from Merrell. Have for 20 years. Great product, great company.

sal

[MichaelScott]

Here's my consumer take on this. I'm seventy-three tomorrow and like many of you, I've seen hundreds of knives. Seems I've used hundreds too. Good knives, like other quality made things, are not cheap. I have settled on Spyderco as the company that cares about knives, quality and people and the company that makes the knives I will buy. I do not find their knives over priced. In fact, I have bought inferior knives for more than I've paid for my few Spydercos.

If prices for current models were to increase, would that keep me from buying a Spyderco if I needed a knife. Why would it? If it cost me an extra $10 to get a new Delica, would that stop me? No. If I wanted a blue, stepped titanium Chaparral and the price was 10% or 20% higher than today's, would that stop me from working toward buying one? No.

If one is looking to buy at one price, then later sell at the same or perhaps a bit higher, I could see reason for concern with price increases, however modest. However, if one is looking for the best tool for the job, why would one go buy an inferior tool to save a few bucks?

[GoldenSpydie]

Hi GS,

I guess I don't understand your objection? As mentioned, the change won't do much stop Alibaba, that's really a job for our government. It might help with "fly by night" companies that really aren't watching the market. It might also drive customers to our long term dealers that are more trustworthy. Some real low-ballers won't be able to advertise very low prices as lost leaders.

sal

Hi Sal,

Thanx much for responding. That is what sets Spyderco apart in terms of customer service

I guess my objection is this: I am apparently too dense to see how fixed pricing benefits the consumer in any way. It just seems like it brings substantial price increases in some models for no good reason.

Maybe Spyderco would suffer if you did not implement MAP. You're the ones who would know, as I don't have the distribution/sales/pricing/etc. data, obviously. It just seems to me that allowing a free market on Spydercos has worked for some 40 years or so, so why fix it if it ain't broken, as the saying goes. Once again, you know best whether or not it is broken because I don't have the info necessary to come to a conclusion on that.

Thanks again for your willingness to engage in discussion on any issue. :)

[gbelleh]

I'm taking the "wait and see" approach before I comment on Spyderco's implementation of MAP. But I can understand the frustration and concern, especially considering the steady upward climb knife prices have taken over the last few years. Many are in serious danger of being priced out of this beloved hobby. I'm starting to seriously consider the future of my own purchasing habits too.

[sal]

Hi GS,

MAP is "Minimum ADVERTISED Price". It's not fixing prices, just not permitting some companies to advertise very low prices. As I understand it, price fixing is illegal?

sal

[sal]

double post

[sal]

triple post

[sal]

trigger finger

[sal]

trigger finger

[razorsharp]

Triple Tap :D

[QUICKSILVER]

The details matter. I was very concerned when the MAP was announced. I have not bought a Benchmade since they announced their MAP. But their MAP is about 15% off their MSRP while Spyderco's is 40%. That makes Spyderco's MAP price around the current median price for most of their knives at reliable dealers. Sprints can be a bit more expensive than the new MAP and some poor sellers are less expensive. Knives in the $300 dollar range are going to be tens of dollars more. There should still be some variation in price and service unlike Benchmade where all prices are MAP. The new MAP is a reasonable policy which I can live with.

Spyderco may wish to modify the MAP to meet specific need. For example they could reduce the MAP to 50% for discontinued products.

Bill Maier

[ChrisinHove]

I wonder how many other people make non essential buying decisions like I do .... If I ever see X at £Y or under, I'll buy it. I never, ever "call for best price"; if a retailer wants to play games, my wallet stays closed.

Tough one.

[animportant]

How will this affect a sale, for example a black Friday sale? Will this no longer happen with Spyderco products?

[GoldenSpydie]

Hi GS,

MAP is "Minimum ADVERTISED Price". It's not fixing prices, just not permitting some companies to advertise very low prices. As I understand it, price fixing is illegal?

sal

Thanks again for responding!

Thanks also for the explanation. I think I misunderstood originally. To further my clarity, which of these will/will not be allowed:

discounts once an item is in the cart
sale prices (Black Friday, etc.)
coupon codes for an additional amount off if the customer calls, etc.

Once more, thanks for your time to explain this. :)

[MichaelScott]

Hi GS,

MAP is "Minimum ADVERTISED Price". It's not fixing prices, just not permitting some companies to advertise very low prices. As I understand it, price fixing is illegal?

sal

Thanks again for responding!

Thanks also for the explanation. I think I misunderstood originally. To further my clarity, which of these will/will not be allowed:

discounts once an item is in the cart
sale prices (Black Friday, etc.)
coupon codes for an additional amount off if the customer calls, etc.

Once more, thanks for your time to explain this. :)

You might want to read my post near the top of this thread. I copied information from the SBA (Small Business Association) that would probably answer your questions.

[paladin]

Great thread!!! :D

This whole discourse is fascinating to me & I'm really learning A LOT... :spyder: :) :spyder:

So Kristi or Sal, is it possible that I could buy a Sage 3 from KW's website in 2016 for an ADVERTISED online, publicly posted price of (for argument's sake) $159...

I then "add to cart," it still lists as a $159 purchase...next I "commit to purchase" & enter & submit my payment info thus consummating purchase...

Could Roger, theoretically, at the final transaction "reduce" the actual "charged to my account" price to, say (for argument's sake, again) $139 ?

As I see it, he didn't violate the MAP policy, in a sense, but he still was able to "sell" the knife at a price point he was comfortable with as a dealer --

Is this theoretically possible ?.... or totally not Kosher ?.... or is that a gray area ?

I'm a simple man, so I'm sorry if this is tedious, but I learn better when I can have concrete examples or walkthrough a particular scenario with examples, rather than just trying to work it through mentally. :o

[Ruarch]

I love Spyderco because they are the best knife for the money across the board that I can find. If MAP changes that then I will broaden my horizons a little more. I really would rather not because I have grown to appreciate this community and Sal and the gang. I don't think 40% off MSRP is too far off what the good dealer prices are anyway, maybe a 5-10%? I am not sure if that will push me away from Spyderco.

[anagarika]

As a foreign buyer who depends on 3rd party or other channels (can't even buy direct fro Amazon), the actual price in my currency matters more to me. It may turn out the currency fluctuations has more effects, or other party's pricing scheme, rather than the MAP. I also know my purchase is not even a grain of sand in Spyderco 's business model.

However, I'm taking wait and see how it works out for folks in US, and in UK/Europe as majority of members are from, and whether this decision is better for ELU because there are factors beyond Spyderco control. The philosophy that ELU matters is what has set Spyderco apart and I hope it stays that way

[sal]

Hi GS,

We have no control over the examples you mentioned. Also, please keep in mind that do not feel that it is our place to tell others how to run their business. Sometimes, like MAP, we feel it is our responsibility to try to be fair.

sal

[swigert]

Hi GS,

We have no control over the examples you mentioned. Also, please keep in mind that do not feel that it is our place to tell others how to run their business. Sometimes, like MAP, we feel it is our responsibility to try to be fair.

sal

This is what I was hoping to hear.