30 deg back bevel and 40 deg edge on all Spydercos?

[Mako109]

Evidently I'm not as good at sharpening as I thought I'm and having a bear of time getting a good edge of some of my Spydercos. Actually I suck and hate to admit it; lately my patience has been wearing thin. Could use some sharpening advice...

1) Somehow I understood that all Spydercos come from the factory with a 30 degree back bevel and 40 degree cutting edge (hope I stated that correctly), am I wrong?

2) I'm using a Sharpmaker and getting impatient sharpening at 30 degrees with med and fine stone, then later at 40 degrees with med and fine stones, then stropping. Any disadvantage skipping the whole back bevel deal and sharpening to just 30 degrees (or just 40 degrees) and call it good after stropping?

3) What's your preferred edge geometry or edge degree on folders with 3.5" or longer blades with general camping tasks in mind? (No batoning, just making feather sticks, notching, cutting rope, food prep, and other light stuff. I use a fixed blade for baton work and heavier tasks).

I know this topic has likely been discussed and I could have done a search, but did I tell you I have little patience left of late...arrrrrrgh.

Thanks much...and yes I know I need a vacation.

[Evil D]

1) They shoot for a 30 degree bevel, but all knives are sharpened by hand so that's a +/- kind of deal. Most should be close, but not all.

2) The purpose of the 30/40 is to make sharpening easier. If your bevel is at 30 degrees, then touching up the edge at 40 degrees should be easy because the increase in angle should mean that the stone is only hitting the very edge of the blade, instead of trying to remove metal from the entire width of the bevel. The purpose of having that 30 degree setting is because after enough sharpening at 40 degrees, the bevel will eventually become just a 40 degree bevel. So, having the 30 setting allows you to reprofile the bevel and thin it back out down to 30, so you can then go back to using 40 for touch ups.

What you need to do is get a Sharpie and mark the bevel, and then see where you're hitting the edge. If you start with 30 and find that you're removing marker from the majority of the edge, then your bevel is at or close to 30. This means you don't NEED to use the 30 setting at all until you need to reprofile the bevel back to 30 after using the 40 setting for a long time. Marker the bevel again and hit the 40 setting and see where you're hitting the edge, and it should be closer to hitting just the very edge.

As for stropping, I would personally advise that you try to get your edges as sharp as you want them with just the SM, because the strop can mask some mistakes you make, and ultimately make you worse at what you're doing. Strops can make an edge seem sharper when you may still have burr left, so they can be counter productive sometimes. I've only been using the Sharpmaker for a couple months now, and I just sharpened my Manix 2 S11V on it and didn't need to use a strop at all and I'm splitting hair (literally). It just takes practice.

3) I like a 30 degree edge for most knives/steels/uses. Very rarely do I go any higher or lower than that. If I do, then on some steels I may lower the back bevel down drastically, but I always go back and add a 25-30 degree micro bevel. On some of my VG10 knives, I have kept them at 35-40, as VG10 isn't the toughest steel and can roll at 30 degrees depending on what you're cutting. But, the vast majority of my knives are just 30 degree bevels with maybe a 35 degree micro bevel, if that. Lately though, I have been using the 40 degree setting on the SM for my micro bevels, and I'm liking the results. For the camping tasks you mentioned, I would probably stick with 40 just so the edge is a bit tougher. Even if you aren't using the knife for the hard tasks, it'll help to keep your knife sharp longer, and besides it'll be much easier when using the SM if you just follow the 30/40 routine.

If you were using another sharpening device or even bench stones, it can be easier to just stick with 30 and forego the whole 40 degree thing, because you can use stones that cut more aggressively than what you can choose from with the SM, but I've found that even with the diamond stones it can be a time consuming process just trying to bring a 30 degree bevel to an apex. So, the 40 degree setting lets you get right out to the edge of the blade so it will speed up sharpening times, at least up until you get to the point where you really need to thin the bevel back down to 30.

Hope that helps. My rule of thumb when sharpening is, once I'm pissed off, it's time to go do something else regardless of whether the knife is sharp or not. I have many knives, so chances are good I can just use something else and leave the other knife alone until I'm not so frustrated. Once you get worked up over it, your accuracy and patience go out the window and the situation just gets worse.

[Birdman21]

1) They shoot for a 30 degree bevel, but all knives are sharpened by hand so that's a +/- kind of deal. Most should be close, but not all.

2) The purpose of the 30/40 is to make sharpening easier. If your bevel is at 30 degrees, then touching up the edge at 40 degrees should be easy because the increase in angle should mean that the stone is only hitting the very edge of the blade, instead of trying to remove metal from the entire width of the bevel. The purpose of having that 30 degree setting is because after enough sharpening at 40 degrees, the bevel will eventually become just a 40 degree bevel. So, having the 30 setting allows you to reprofile the bevel and thin it back out down to 30, so you can then go back to using 40 for touch ups.

What you need to do is get a Sharpie and mark the bevel, and then see where you're hitting the edge. If you start with 30 and find that you're removing marker from the majority of the edge, then your bevel is at or close to 30. This means you don't NEED to use the 30 setting at all until you need to reprofile the bevel back to 30 after using the 40 setting for a long time. Marker the bevel again and hit the 40 setting and see where you're hitting the edge, and it should be closer to hitting just the very edge.

As for stropping, I would personally advise that you try to get your edges as sharp as you want them with just the SM, because the strop can mask some mistakes you make, and ultimately make you worse at what you're doing. Strops can make an edge seem sharper when you may still have burr left, so they can be counter productive sometimes. I've only been using the Sharpmaker for a couple months now, and I just sharpened my Manix 2 S11V on it and didn't need to use a strop at all and I'm splitting hair (literally). It just takes practice.

3) I like a 30 degree edge for most knives/steels/uses. Very rarely do I go any higher or lower than that. If I do, then on some steels I may lower the back bevel down drastically, but I always go back and add a 25-30 degree micro bevel. On some of my VG10 knives, I have kept them at 35-40, as VG10 isn't the toughest steel and can roll at 30 degrees depending on what you're cutting. But, the vast majority of my knives are just 30 degree bevels with maybe a 35 degree micro bevel, if that. Lately though, I have been using the 40 degree setting on the SM for my micro bevels, and I'm liking the results. For the camping tasks you mentioned, I would probably stick with 40 just so the edge is a bit tougher. Even if you aren't using the knife for the hard tasks, it'll help to keep your knife sharp longer, and besides it'll be much easier when using the SM if you just follow the 30/40 routine.

If you were using another sharpening device or even bench stones, it can be easier to just stick with 30 and forego the whole 40 degree thing, because you can use stones that cut more aggressively than what you can choose from with the SM, but I've found that even with the diamond stones it can be a time consuming process just trying to bring a 30 degree bevel to an apex. So, the 40 degree setting lets you get right out to the edge of the blade so it will speed up sharpening times, at least up until you get to the point where you really need to thin the bevel back down to 30.

Hope that helps. My rule of thumb when sharpening is, once I'm pissed off, it's time to go do something else regardless of whether the knife is sharp or not. I have many knives, so chances are good I can just use something else and leave the other knife alone until I'm not so frustrated. Once you get worked up over it, your accuracy and patience go out the window and the situation just gets worse.

Glad someone cleared this up! I was just about to start a new thread about the same thing! I just received my first sharpmaker yesterday, and almost threw it across the room while trying to sharpen my Manix2. I know its me and not the sharpener, maybe too many years of using bench stones has tainted me lol! Gonna try the sharpie trick today and give it another go!

[jalcon]

Well stated Evil...

If I may add. The other day I tried back beveling my sage 1 back to 30 degrees. Wow. That took well over an hour to get it back to a 30 degree apex. And I have diamond rods. I can't even imagine doing it with just the rods the sharpmaker comes with!

I guess it isn't completely necessary to go completely to a 30 degree apex when back-beveling...or is it?

[endgame]

Get a wicked edge you wont be sorry

[akaAK]

As someone who uses a SM exclusively (Diamond rods are a necessity in my set-up) I have found that any knife I get with an existing back bevel of less than 30 degrees I will start to micro bevel at 30. Once that widens out I can switch to the 40 degree setting. Eliminates some of the need for re-profiling on the SM.

One other piece of advice, keep the SM stones clean (abrasive cleanser, Comet, Ajax) it will make life easier.

I don't strop, never saw the need. Also the advice above is pretty much dead on, frustration leads to poor form and extra pressure which will give you negative results. I took me some time to develop a process and get good at it.

I think for the uses you described 40 degrees would be ideal.

[farnorthdan]

I can see where you might be getting frustrated with the SM, like Pat said, get a fixed system like the edge pro or wicked edge if your trying to set a bevel. The SM is a great system for touching up but takes forever if your trying to do any major work. The diamond rods are essential for the SM if you decide to stick to that system alone.

[Surfingringo]

Hi op, the reason you are getting impatient is you are trying to set your 30 degree bevel with the medium rods which are much too fine for that job. You are likely not even apexing properly which will prevent you from ever getting the level of sharpness you want. I have been there and tried what you are doing and it is an effort in futility. My solution was to buy the diamond rods which completely revolutionized my experience with the sharpmaker. As long as you have not let it get too wide, you can reset your 30 degree bevel and properly apex in 5-10 minutes. From there you can just lightly microbevel (this means a 30 second touchup at 40 degrees) for months until your bevel starts to get too wide. At that point simply reprofile again with the diamond rods. I cannot recommend the diamond rods highly enough. They will completely change your experience with the sharpmaker.

[anagarika]

A good diagram that hopefully helps: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... e-Geometry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The subforum where this comes from is full of good sharpening tips & tricks.

[Evil D]

My advice on the back bevel thing is, if you only use a SM, just don't let the bevel get to the point where it had become a 40 degree bevel and you have to take it all the way back down to 30. Instead, every couple sharpenings take the time to remove any of the 40 degree edge that can be seen on the bevel. It will still take time but not near as much all at once sitting. This is a pretty good practice regardless of what you sharpen with.

[Surfingringo]

My advice on the back bevel thing is, if you only use a SM, just don't let the bevel get to the point where it had become a 40 degree bevel and you have to take it all the way back down to 30. Instead, every couple sharpenings take the time to remove any of the 40 degree edge that can be seen on the bevel. It will still take time but not near as much all at once sitting. This is a pretty good practice regardless of what you sharpen with.

This is good advice. Rather than doing that every couple of sharpenings though, I do it every 8 or 10. But those are usually light touchups to the microbevel with the medium rods so even after 8 or 10 the 30 degree edge bevel is pretty well intact. If I am micro beveling with a lower grit then I might have to repair my bevel a little more often. Either way, EvilD makes a good point. It's easier to "re-profile" if you do it a bit more often.

[Mako109]

To EvilD, Surfingingo, akaAK, endgame, farnorthdan, anagarika, jalcon - thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my issue and share your valuable tips. Oh and you too Birdman21, glad to know I'm not the only one. Now I see the where I've been going wrong. I've saved all of your responses into my Evernote notebook for future reference. You guys are who make this forum so great! Thank you again!

[ChrisinHove]

+1 on the diamond rods.

[Mako109]

Success :) Finally put the edge back on a couple of troublesome knives. Never had to re-profile before and this was a good exercise. Your tips + diamond triangles + stropping + a LOT of patience all paid off. The patience part of the formula is where I really lacked. Took me the entire Seahawks vs Vikings game plus half of the Seahawks vs Ravens game the following week (time for touchdown celebrations included). Thanks much everyone!

[gaj999]

Lotsa good advice here I won't repeat. Just a comment that 20 degree back bevel with a 30 degree micro bevel is my starting point for all my knives.

Gordon

[jimmyjohnjohn]

1) They shoot for a 30 degree bevel, but all knives are sharpened by hand so that's a +/- kind of deal. Most should be close, but not all.

Have you not seen the video of Spyderco's sharpening robot? Seriously, they have one and it looks like it sets the angle precisely.

[jimmyjohnjohn]

Get a wicked edge you wont be sorry

I use something similar, an EdgePro Professional. I set the bevel angle to whatever is appropriate relative to the steel, blade thickness and use. The EP will sharpen virtually anything, including this Busse.



Using an Angle Cube to measure and set the desired bevel profile...

[bearfacedkiller]

1) They shoot for a 30 degree bevel, but all knives are sharpened by hand so that's a +/- kind of deal. Most should be close, but not all.

Have you not seen the video of Spyderco's sharpening robot? Seriously, they have one and it looks like it sets the angle precisely.

A fraction of the Golden models are sharpened on the robot and I don't think that the other plants have a robot. I would say that the majority of Spydies are still done by hand.

[Surfingringo]

1) They shoot for a 30 degree bevel, but all knives are sharpened by hand so that's a +/- kind of deal. Most should be close, but not all.

Have you not seen the video of Spyderco's sharpening robot? Seriously, they have one and it looks like it sets the angle precisely.

A fraction of the Golden models are sharpened on the robot and I don't think that the other plants have a robot. I would say that the majority of Spydies are still done by hand.

Based on the Golden models I have bought in the last year, I am guessing that more and more of them are being done by the machine. The last half dozen Golden made knives I've bought have had PERFECT bevels. If its a guy in a leather apron doing those grinds I want to shake his hand cause he's a boss. :p

I believe that all the other factories are still hand sharpening. A couple of the poorer bevels I've gotten (too obtuse) came from Taichung actually. Ironic as the Taichung knives seem to be at the top of the list in all other areas of fit and finish.

[TheOutdoorNerd]

My new FRN Native S110V came with a perfect edge. I didn't know they had a sharpening robot, so I just figured that whoever sharpened it was having a really good day :)

Also, I love my new Sharpmaker. So, the diamond rods are coarser than the medium rods? I'm happy I got the UF rods, but this is the first time that I've heard that there's another set to get. At least I won't buy them one at a time the next time lol.