1) Photo examples are provided showing that choils take the same or even less space than non choiled versions (on similar in house examples) but no one wants to refute that. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but it appears that the opposite is actually true, given the 3 pictures shown in this thread:
(for some reason I can't quote the meadowlark photo)
In all of these pictures it appears, to me at least, that the choil results in the "guard" on the handle being farther away from the cutting edge. And, given a consistent overall length, a smaller gripable area behind the guard on the handle. The meadowlark is the closest, but again, the handle behind the guard is shorter due to the choil.
And as I've said previously, I'm not a choil hater, I love it on my PM2, and my R, etc, but I think tacking it onto certain other designs would make them worse, not better. The Delica, again in my opinion, is one of those designs.
Dear GOD..I typed a reply and I lost it... I wish we had auto save here like in bladeforums.
Ok let me try this again...I think that we are talking about different things here. Where you quoted me, I am only talking about tang to tang/ metal to metal. Also, we are only talking about Spyderco's typical in house styled designs where we can directly compared those tang/choiled areas. Your observations are of course correct. The far grip on non choiled knives is typically closer to the blade.
Like I already said, the number 1 argument against choils I read is that it takes away precious mm's of bladelength. On Spydercos typical in house styled knives, this is simply not true as witnessed from the pictures. If you line up a Delica or Worker tang to tang with choiled models for example, the space the choil takes is either the same or even LESS than non choiled models. A hilariously glaring example is if you line up a Millie's choil against a Delica. All the complaints over the years of that choil taking precious space is for naught, if it were removed, it would have that tang space like the Delica anyway.
One thing thing to consider regarding grip options is that you can actually grip a choiled knife on the handle side of the 50/50 choil at the very butt end of the front side of the guard. I'd be surprised if you dont already know that but it's yet another option that non choiled doesnt give you and knowing this fact, I am surprised that so many people have that much of a problem with it.
Regarding the farther behind the guard grip you are talking about, being farther back with the choiled knife is not necessarily a bad thing. In stabbing, you are farther away... In self defense, being farther away gives you more bladelength- there's your added "length" lol.... I'll just end this rewrite here...this sucks
I'm so mad, the original reply was more concise.