Delica 4 Choil

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Doc Dan
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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby Doc Dan » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:23 am

FDE wrote:
I for one (actually I guess two) would like to see a 50/50 choil added to the Delica. There is already that big unsharpened spot on the blade that even the nay sayers admit to using as a makeshift choil, so might as well make it the real deal!
That said, I've given up on this notion since Sal has heard my cry for a smaller Paramilitary. If you have not had a PM2 and a Delica side by side then have a look.

Image
The Delica has a guard that allows the hand to position itself closer to the blade for more control than does the PM.
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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby FCM415 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:26 am

Choils can be dangerous? Well anything can be dangerous if you think about it so I guess you are not wrong. Let's not forget that the 50/50 is in fact put in place as a SAFETY feature and for convenience. If you hate something enough, you can find a way that makes it dangerous though.

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby FCM415 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:38 am

Doc Dan wrote:
FDE wrote:
I for one (actually I guess two) would like to see a 50/50 choil added to the Delica. There is already that big unsharpened spot on the blade that even the nay sayers admit to using as a makeshift choil, so might as well make it the real deal!
That said, I've given up on this notion since Sal has heard my cry for a smaller Paramilitary. If you have not had a PM2 and a Delica side by side then have a look.

Image
The Delica has a guard that allows the hand to position itself closer to the blade for more control than does the PM.
No, you can place your index finger on the very edge of the handle side of the PM2's 50/50 choil, and its exactly my preferred grip on the Calys. You just dont like choils.

The main complaint I read is that choils loses edge. Pictures illustrate otherwise on Spyderco's in house styles designs, but no one can refute it and moves on to the next complaint. Second complaint is you have to move your grip farther... On many models that is simply not the case. You can place your index finger wherever you want and if you really want control, this is where the choil shines and is safer and more confortable than choking up on the Delica. Third is some think its ugly. That's totally an individual opinion but I certainly dont consider the Millie, PM2, Chaparral, Caly etc etc etc ugly.

That being said, Im ok with or without a choil but I just feel like defending it against the extreme side of hate for it because most arguments seem empty. Just a matter of preference. Spyderco esp Sal and Eric's designs is not the company to patronize if you HATE choils. Why torture yourself :)

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby FCM415 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:52 am

So....
1) Photo examples are provided showing that choils take the same or even less space than non choiled versions (on similar in house examples) but no one wants to refute that. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T.

2) The choil brings your grip farther down is mostly not true. You can position your index finger anywhere you'd like on the handle side of the choil. When you actually want to use the handle guard as an actual guard, your finger is actually farther from the blade which is safer. What situations would that entail? Stabbing and perhaps in a self defense situation right? So.... In this case you actually get MORE blade length while your thumb is still securely gripping the Jimped hump on Spydie models. Derp.

But hey everyone is free to not like a choil. I think you guys should give less reasons for not liking it and just stick with saying that you just simply dont.

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby JohnAPA » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:54 pm

I don't get the choil thing at all (sorry). To me it's relying on two fingers to get a job done that requires my whole hand.

Edit: I encounter a couple of such situations on a daily basis.

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby MichaelScott » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:04 pm

Well, I guess we can say after a bunch of posts, that some people like the 50/50 (rounded, jimped [sometimes] choil) and some don't. And, everyone has their reasons, or, if not actually reasons, feelings, one way or the other.

For a general use folding knife, I think a 50/50 jimped choil offers me options that a non-choil knife foregoes. I don't miss a quarter-inch of cutting area at the back of the blade. Seldom use it anyway. And since seeing Surfingringo fillet that mackerel with the Dog Tag, who needs a long blade anyway?

I would love a 50/50 jimped choil on a Delica with a FRN handle. I don't expect to see a production model like that. Even so, the Delica is, for me, the best all around folding knife and I carry my brown one almost every day. Probably need a backup just in case I lose it like I did my previous two Dragonfly knives. The blue one looks good....
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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby spyderwolf » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:17 am

I want a Meadowlark without a choil,this would be great.Oh wait...
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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby Titomake » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:23 pm

Reading the related posts it seems that Spyderco has room enough in its line up for an FRN choiled "Delica" and, why not, with a wire clip.
They could obviously mantain the non choiled version and name the new one Lightweight or anything else.
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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby On Edge » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:39 am

I don't lust for a choiled Delica, but I do see the OP's point.
My two main Spyderco EDCs (these days anyway) are a PM2 and a Sage 1. I own a single Delica (because it fills a certain niche and well … you HAVE to own at least ONE), but don't carry it much - it's my "in the truck" EDC kit knife … I also own a ZDP Caly 3 - that gets carried fairly often, clipless - as a 'dress up' knife, sometimes my dress up is simply a Kiwi, and then there's my G10 Dfly, which gets watch pocket time … note the verry subtle common thread here ...
Now to my point - if they made a Delica with a 50-50 choil I would be much more likely to carry it.
I am a "Choil guy" - there, I've said it.

BTW, comparing a Meadowlark to a Delica … ? Ummm … no.
Last edited by On Edge on Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby On Edge » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:51 am

…...

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby spyderwolf » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:35 am

On Edge wrote:I don't lust for a choiled Delica, but I do see the OP's point.
My two main Spyderco EDCs (these days anyway) are a PM2 and a Sage 1. I own a single Delica (because it fills a certain niche and well … you HAVE to own at least ONE), but don't carry it much - it's my "in the truck" EDC kit knife … I also own a ZDP Caly 3 - that gets carried fairly often, clipless - as a 'dress up' knife, sometimes my dress up is simply a Kiwi, and then there's my G10 Dfly, which gets watch pocket time … note the verry subtle common thread here ...
Now to my point - if they made a Delica with a 50-50 choil I would be much more likely to carry it.
I am a "Choil guy" - there, I've said it.

BTW, comparing a Meadowlark to a Delica … ? Ummm … no.
Why not ? Its basically the same the same knife,with an inferior steel...and a choil.
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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby On Edge » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:44 am

Yes … but the inferior steel and less attention to materials, fit, and finish were exactly my point ...

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby MichaelScott » Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:10 pm

On Edge wrote:Yes … but the inferior steel and less attention to materials, fit, and finish were exactly my point ...
Yes. +1. We are talking about the Delica, not byrd knives. Or Calys. Etc.

Delica 5: same handle ergonomics, FRN, wire clip, 50/50 jimped choil, new colors. Love it!
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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby Halfneck » Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:16 pm

Well if they decide to make a Delica with a choil then maybe they can make a Calypso 3 without one.

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby spyderwolf » Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:49 am

I thought we are talking about a choiled Delica,and in this respect its impossible not to compare the Delica with the Meadowlark.They are made by the same company,have the same design,and the same dimensions.Of course the Meadowlark is an inferior knife,but it leaves nothing to the imagination on how a D5 with a choil would look like.
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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby chuck_roxas45 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:25 am

MichaelScott wrote:...

Granted that most responders don't like choils in general, and specifically not on a Delica, we don't have to beat that horse (sorry, had to do it). If anyone wishes to offer objective pros and cons, I'd like to hear them.

Regards,
Michael
It's just a matter of personal preference. Just like yours. There's no objective pros and cons about it.

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby tvenuto » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:39 am

FCM415 wrote:So....
1) Photo examples are provided showing that choils take the same or even less space than non choiled versions (on similar in house examples) but no one wants to refute that. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but it appears that the opposite is actually true, given the 3 pictures shown in this thread:
FDE wrote: Image
MichaelScott wrote:Image
(for some reason I can't quote the meadowlark photo)

In all of these pictures it appears, to me at least, that the choil results in the "guard" on the handle being farther away from the cutting edge. And, given a consistent overall length, a smaller gripable area behind the guard on the handle. The meadowlark is the closest, but again, the handle behind the guard is shorter due to the choil.

And as I've said previously, I'm not a choil hater, I love it on my PM2, and my R, etc, but I think tacking it onto certain other designs would make them worse, not better. The Delica, again in my opinion, is one of those designs.

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby FCM415 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:35 am

tvenuto wrote:
FCM415 wrote:So....
1) Photo examples are provided showing that choils take the same or even less space than non choiled versions (on similar in house examples) but no one wants to refute that. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but it appears that the opposite is actually true, given the 3 pictures shown in this thread:
FDE wrote: Image
MichaelScott wrote:Image
(for some reason I can't quote the meadowlark photo)

In all of these pictures it appears, to me at least, that the choil results in the "guard" on the handle being farther away from the cutting edge. And, given a consistent overall length, a smaller gripable area behind the guard on the handle. The meadowlark is the closest, but again, the handle behind the guard is shorter due to the choil.

And as I've said previously, I'm not a choil hater, I love it on my PM2, and my R, etc, but I think tacking it onto certain other designs would make them worse, not better. The Delica, again in my opinion, is one of those designs.
Dear GOD..I typed a reply and I lost it... I wish we had auto save here like in bladeforums.

Ok let me try this again...I think that we are talking about different things here. Where you quoted me, I am only talking about tang to tang/ metal to metal. Also, we are only talking about Spyderco's typical in house styled designs where we can directly compared those tang/choiled areas. Your observations are of course correct. The far grip on non choiled knives is typically closer to the blade.

Like I already said, the number 1 argument against choils I read is that it takes away precious mm's of bladelength. On Spydercos typical in house styled knives, this is simply not true as witnessed from the pictures. If you line up a Delica or Worker tang to tang with choiled models for example, the space the choil takes is either the same or even LESS than non choiled models. A hilariously glaring example is if you line up a Millie's choil against a Delica. All the complaints over the years of that choil taking precious space is for naught, if it were removed, it would have that tang space like the Delica anyway.

One thing thing to consider regarding grip options is that you can actually grip a choiled knife on the handle side of the 50/50 choil at the very butt end of the front side of the guard. I'd be surprised if you dont already know that but it's yet another option that non choiled doesnt give you and knowing this fact, I am surprised that so many people have that much of a problem with it.

Regarding the farther behind the guard grip you are talking about, being farther back with the choiled knife is not necessarily a bad thing. In stabbing, you are farther away... In self defense, being farther away gives you more bladelength- there's your added "length" lol.... I'll just end this rewrite here...this sucks :o

I'm so mad, the original reply was more concise.

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby tvenuto » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:54 am

Ha, I hate when that stuff happens. I usually hit the save draft on long ones, and often "copy" my text on long ones before hitting the submit button.

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Re: Delica 4 Choil

Postby spyderwolf » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:18 am

There are no good arguments for choils,as there are no good arguments against them.Its in the eye/hand of the beholder.I think that manny guys are simply bored with the Delica and whant to see something new.Its like the story with the liners,or the jimping,or the glass breakers,or the coated blades,or any other hype.Spyderco will go with what the Marketing experts will say:if they thing that they will sell more D5 with a choil,surely they will put one on it.If they think that this will make them loose the purists or the guys who dont realy give a damm they will keep it choiles.I know i will not buy a choiled Delica...
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