Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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SpyderEdgeForever
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Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#1

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

http://knifenews.com/why-is-knivesshipf ... -spyderco/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The main idea there seems to be that people can buy the Spyderco knife cheaper from Amazon.com than from his online webstore. Can someone please explain some of the particulars of this to me?

Is it because Amazon.com is so huge that they can buy the knife and sell it cheaper than this particular online webstore can, so, in his eyes it is not worth it for him to stock and sell them?
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gbelleh
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#2

Post by gbelleh »

In my purchase history, Amazon is sometimes, but not usually the cheapest place online. KSF seemed to have quite high prices compared to many other similar online retailers. I've noticed that KSF almost exclusively markets traditional folders and high end custom fixed blades these days. It seems they're focusing more on that market. Same with Howes, which seems to have dropped Spyderco too.
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Evil D
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#3

Post by Evil D »

Well, if they're losing money, I can't argue that. But, I do think most online shoppers are willing to pay a few bucks more from the retailers they trust, rather than shopping around looking to save every possible dollar. If the difference between my favorite online knife shop is $5-10 from Amazon, that isn't enough for me to buy from Amazon when I have no idea where my knife is coming from. In this same way, I'm also going to support my local B&M store with an even larger gap in pricing. Sometimes his prices are on par with online store, sometimes not. I'm always willing to pay the extra bit, just because I value having the option to handle things in person before I buy.
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SpyderEdgeForever
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#4

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

Great point, I would much rather spend a few extra dollars and get the genuine Spyderco from a trusted store than spend a few dollars less on one I do not know is for real or counterfeit. The Spyderco Store seems to be a good one.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#5

Post by Liquid Cobra »

Thanks for the link SEF, I didn't know that there was a website dedicated to knife news, thats pretty cool.

I'm sad to see that KnivesShipFree won't be selling Spyderco anymore, it's unfortunate. I found this part interesting:

"The exact nature of Spyderco’s relationship with Amazon remains unclear but as recently as early 2015, Spyderco had an explicit policy of only selling knives directly to new retailers if they operated a physical storefront. Spyderco forced on-line only stores to buy knives through wholesale distributors who would add their markup."

Does Amazon have a storefront??? I've heard of a few different knife manufacturers sticking to this store front rule.
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SpyderEdgeForever
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#6

Post by SpyderEdgeForever »

There was another knife seller, I don't want to mention their name but nearly everyone on here has probably heard of them (they sell through the web and a print catalog) and they only sell mostly cheap-made off-brand knives, like folders for 20 or less that are truly low quality. I asked them why they don't sell Spyderco knives and other quality-made knives and they told me their customer base just does not want to spend the money. I would rather have one Spyderco than 1000 nasty cheapo knives.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#7

Post by ninewalker »

Amazon doesn't have a physical storefront. But really they are such a big and visible online presence that it's in Spyderco's best interests business wise to sell to them. The most telltale sign of Amazon's presence is in the book industry. Publishers just don't have a choice but to sell to them, they fight tooth and nail for their authors but the end of the day they need to sell to Amazon or go bust. The end result is that booksellers just call it quits. Remember Borders'? As that article stated, Bezos doesn't care about profit margins. They get their money somewhere else.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#8

Post by The Mastiff »

KSF is moving back to Michigan from Oregon which they moved to just two or three years ago?

I like them and the store but they weren't selling many Spyderco's to us regulars here because of what they sell knives for. I've never used Amazon for a knife purchase and won't any time soon. Knife Center and Knife Works, and Grand Prairie have been my go to stores since the early 2002-3 timeline.

They are all less expensive than KSF and will check the knives before shipping to me. That has kept me from ever having a return to Spyderco W&R in over 150 Spyderco sales plus other knives some of which were special orders and pre orders. .Last time I asked KSF to check a folder they canceled the sale because the folder didn't pass his inspection and he only had one.

I can't say I know what is going on but KSF probably wasn't selling many Spyderco's anyway. Most of their customers are fixed blade or traditional people anyway. Spyderco isn't the only one that they have dropped in the last few years. When they sell at clearance they sell higher than regular price at Kworks.

I have bought all Bark Rivers knives I've purchased from them though. They are probably Bark Rivers largest dealer.

Anyhow it doesn't effect me.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#9

Post by The Deacon »

Liquid Cobra wrote:Does Amazon have a storefront??? I've heard of a few different knife manufacturers sticking to this store front rule.
I doubt that they do, although, if enough companies required one I'm sure they could set one up.

The following is pure speculation on my part:

The other possibility is that distributors may not need a store front. Yes, I know that distributors are not allowed to sell retail. I'm less sure if distributors legally required to prove to Spyderco that they are making a profit on their sales to retailers. Normally, that would be an obvious necessity to remain in business for long. However, Amazon is big enough, devious enough, and has more than enough lawyers on staff, to set up a dummy corporation to "own" the distributorship, "rent" space to that distributor in an Amazon warehouse, then "buy" from that distributor for exactly what the distributor paid.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#10

Post by tvenuto »

You also have to remember that Amazon is big enough that they don't have to make a profit on every transaction, just on the aggregate. Somewhat like McDonalds that doesn't need to make money on burgers if they have an awesome margin on soft drinks; the burger price just gets people in the door.

My first ever Spyderco was a Delica 4 purchased from Amazon, and look what that started ;). I now prefer to buy from many of the high quality retailers that many have mentioned. It's worth a slightly higher price for great customer service, and the assurance that there will be no issues with counterfeit knives. It could be argued that, at least in my case, the ease of receiving that first knife from Amazon indirectly gave lots of business to specialty knife retailers.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#11

Post by dubya3 »

Evil D wrote:Well, if they're losing money, I can't argue that. But, I do think most online shoppers are willing to pay a few bucks more from the retailers they trust, rather than shopping around looking to save every possible dollar. If the difference between my favorite online knife shop is $5-10 from Amazon, that isn't enough for me to buy from Amazon when I have no idea where my knife is coming from. In this same way, I'm also going to support my local B&M store with an even larger gap in pricing. Sometimes his prices are on par with online store, sometimes not. I'm always willing to pay the extra bit, just because I value having the option to handle things in person before I buy.

Well said, i operate the same way. Having the security of knowing your knife will arrive and if there is a problem it'll be fixed is worth the extra $10. My local B&M will match bladehq and KW for me, but you're paying sales tax then which can be an extra $25 on a $300 knife but being able to hand pick the knife you're buying and helping out a friend and local economy makes me happy to spend a little more.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#12

Post by bearfacedkiller »

Spyderco doesn't have any sort of MAP pricing in effect so some of the online dealers are able to sell the knives on very small margins. This makes selling Spyderco knives hard unless you can find a way to move a lot of volume or figure out how to get customers to cover a larger margin. I am in no way advocating map pricing but some other knife companies do it. I'm glad Spyderco doesn't but it does have an impact on the market and it makes it hard for the little guys.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#13

Post by jtoler_9 »

The Mastiff wrote: I like them and the store but they weren't selling many Spyderco's to us regulars here because of what they sell knives for. I've never used Amazon for a knife purchase and won't any time soon. Knife Center and Knife Works, and Grand Prairie have been my go to stores since the early 2002-3 timeline.

They are all less expensive than KSF and will check the knives before shipping to me.

I see this the same way Mastiff.

I like KSF and have purchased several fixed blades from them over the years. But folders that I have interest in, seem to be priced lower at other online vendors. BHQ, GP, KW and CS. I don't know that it's only Amazon causing KSF problems selling Spydies. It's an overly competitive online sales marketplace. And most folks like us, crazy enough to buy more than one or two knives a year, know how to shop the competition.

I can't think of a single Spydie in my collection that I bought on Amazon.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#14

Post by PayneTrain »

Evil D wrote: But, I do think most online shoppers are willing to pay a few bucks more from the retailers they trust, rather than shopping around looking to save every possible dollar.
I don't know about that. I think the average consumer will take the lowest price regardless, and may not even think about it. The same people that shop at Wal Mart religiously, and there are obviously plenty of those. I think among the internet communities like this we make more judicious decisions, but even then there are plenty of people among us that still go with Amazon for their price. And we always hear about them because they're never sure if their knife is real or not!

I'm with you and the consensus here, though. I'd gladly pay 5, 10, 20 dollars or more if I had to to know that I'm supporting a worthy business and getting a little peace of mind, while still getting a pretty fair price. I wish I had someone local to go to, but I haven't found one yet in CT. Though the local bait n tackle shop does sell a few Spydercos, I already have most of what is in their small case! Perhaps if they can get me a yellow Tasman instead of the black one...
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#15

Post by v8r »

I truly believe that the average shopper is only concerned with price these days. For example: the service department that I used to run, I intentionally went around and price shopped our competition. I shopped other dealerships as well as independent shops, and intentionally set my price lower than theirs. I found that even if your quality of service is superior to everyone else in town, if you are higher on basic services and hourly rate people would never give you a chance at servicing their vehicles.
If the business in question is always higher in price they will have trouble moving product in this market. As sad as it seems Walmart and the other "big box" stores have changed the way business is done in the United States.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#16

Post by Mic1 »

I had a return with KSF it was over $500.00. After getting it I was really disappointed in the fit and finish so I asked to return it they wanted 20% which was over a $100 for restocking fee. They waved it after I threatened to go on ever forum and social media site and complain. 20 + shipping I can live with I won't like it but I could live with it but over $100 is total bs. Especially when it's a fit and finish issue and not just I didn't like it. Bento box, knife center,blade HQ, knife works and plenty more on line are reputable dealers of spyderco and other brands.
I have never liked Amazon for knives you really don't always know where there coming from.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#17

Post by zhyla »

Amazon has at least one storefront.

I'm the opposite of most of you guys. I buy everything from Amazon. Unless something is 10% cheaper elsewhere I'll just buy it from Amazon.

Sounds like KSF just doesn't do enough volume to get good wholesale pricing on a Spyderco knives.
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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#18

Post by Cliff Stamp »

SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Is it because Amazon.com is so huge that they can buy the knife and sell it cheaper than this particular online webstore can, so, in his eyes it is not worth it for him to stock and sell them?
They explain it in the article.

KSF can not buy from Spyderco, they have to buy from someone who buys from Spyderco as a wholesaler and this causes an automatic margin loss. In addition Amazon can sell products at a loss because they sell advertising. KSF can not keep selling Spyderco's because if they price them so they make money no one is apparently willing to buy them and they can't uncut Amazon's prices as they would be selling at a loss.

As an aside, Spyderco should look at this kind of reaction carefully because loss of retailers is never a good thing and you don't want to end up with a very few select retailers because you could end up with a loss of negotiation power/ability.
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#19

Post by mtngunr »

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Re: Store won't be selling Spyderco Knives anymore?

#20

Post by sal »

It's a very complex issue and we've been studying possible solutions for the past year and a half on a regular basis. We have lost a few customers, to our regret. Large companies like Amazon and Wal-Mart certainly have advantages. Finding and implementing solutions must be done carefully lest we really screw up.

sal
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