Civilian 2 Wish List - what would be today's perfect Civilian?

[Bill1170]

The cost of FRN molds is very high, and may constitute a practical reason not to do FRN on the Civilian 2. Sculpted G-10 or CF would be my second choice for foolproof grip in all conditions; like the bidirectional FRN, these have a more macro texture that mechanically locks into the hand when gripped firmly.

[PM1]

Time to bring the Civilian 2 string back to life, since it is a great idea. :D

I believe the Civilian 2 should have:

1) A black blade, black grippy-texture grip and black pocket clip: the Civilian is intended for undercover self-defence, not pocket bling.
2) it should be as slim as possible, it should have an Emerson Opener, bigger Spydie hole and be left or right carry, tip-up: make it easy to carry, strong or weak side, easy to draw, and with minimal printing.
3) it should have 1 deep choil: I'm thinking about the feel of the Street Beat choil. :cool:
4) it should be XL-sized: the Matriarch II already has the mid-sized covered, so why not make the badass Civilian even badassier! Any jurisdiction that wouldn't allow the XL-sized Civilian 2 probably already doesn't allow the current Civilian, so it shouldn't make any difference for who could carry it.
5) it should use H1 steel with the TiCN black coating: 100% rustproof and tough, non-brittle steel
6) the ergonomics and balance should be carefully thought out.

I would love to see this knife, and would be insta-buying it if Spyderco ever makes it.

[ChrisinHove]

One of the features I enjoy (but truthfully don't need) on the PM2 is that with the compression lock you can deploy the blade almost silently.

A lock that allows the Civilian blade to swing quietly into place might be useful to those that need this sort of knife in the first place.

[DansGunBlog]

One of the features I enjoy (but truthfully don't need) on the PM2 is that with the compression lock you can deploy the blade almost silently.

A lock that allows the Civilian blade to swing quietly into place might be useful to those that need this sort of knife in the first place.

Great point Re: silent operation... the compression lock could be a great choice for the Civilian 2.

Dan

[DansGunBlog]

Glad to see this thread active again...

Any rough ETA on the Civilian 2?

I believe the Civilian 2 should have:

1) A black blade, black grippy-texture grip and black pocket clip: the Civilian is intended for undercover self-defence, not pocket bling.
2) it should be as slim as possible, it should have an Emerson Opener, bigger Spydie hole and be left or right carry, tip-up: make it easy to carry, strong or weak side, easy to draw, and with minimal printing.
3) it should have 1 deep choil: I'm thinking about the feel of the Street Beat choil. :cool:
4) it should be XL-sized: the Matriarch II already has the mid-sized covered, so why not make the badass Civilian even badassier! Any jurisdiction that wouldn't allow the XL-sized Civilian 2 probably already doesn't allow the current Civilian, so it shouldn't make any difference for who could carry it.
5) it should use H1 steel with the TiCN black coating: 100% rustproof and tough, non-brittle steel
6) the ergonomics and balance should be carefully thought out.

I would love to see this knife, and would be insta-buying it if Spyderco ever makes it.

Great points...

Definitely XL-sized...

Definitely a grippy handle texture.

I wasn't sure about the TiCN black coating back when we started this thread, but it does make sense and fit the intended use case / philosophy of use.

Also agree with the choil. I know they're not popular with everyone, but frankly it could be a great last-ditch safety feature for your finger for all the guys who are gonna flick open and close this knife countless times after buying it. :)

Dan

[PM1]

The Civilian 2 NEEDS to stay in your hand in any extreme situation. Yes, a good grippy texture helps; however, a deep choil such as the one found on the Street Beat gives a massive mechanical advantage to your grip strength: this style of choil is a grip force multiplier, not just a finger protector. I believe that anyone who has held a Street Beat would understand what makes that choil so much better, comfortable and grip enhancing that a standard choil. This is so much the case that the Street Beat has a perfectly smooth grip texture and yet it is welded to my hand. If Spyderco makes a Civilian 2 with such a deep, contoured choil it will be huge benefit that users will instantly feel when they first pick up the knife.

[endgame]

Dont fix what aint broke.I have the akinny on real civies fir sale for 42$ 100% real website trying to get rid of overstock pm me I give you the site

[Minibear453]

My two cents! The philosophy behind a Civilian is to be a knife specifically for self defense. That means it needs to be instantaneously accessible, dependable, but also that it does not need to have great "longevity" in that it is only expected to see a few cuts in its lifetime. Additionally, this is meant for LEOs. So what does that mean?

To me, this means the knife has to be cheap. Self defense knives are not supposed to be pretty knives. They only need to function. A low cost knife would be advantageous in allowing more people to access them, and possibly keeping backups of the same knife. (Say one in the car, in the house, to give other people going in the field....) There just is not a compelling reason to make these knives expensive. Looking at mine right now, I would change:

-Larger hole. It needs to be easy to open.
-Easier deployment. The P'kal's a knife with great deployability. Not so much this one. Maybe make the clip lower, or taper the knife so it's easier to pull out of your pocket... or something? I hesitate on an emerson opener because it is not easy to get a full grip on the knife and draw it tip down, it's a little too big.
-Cheaper steel. There's no reason for this knife to use expensive steel. I think a budget version out of 8CR13MOV would even make sense here. I can't see anyone making over 10 cuts with this knife, and I don't think those 10 cuts would really test the steel. On the other hand, I feel like 8CR13MOV would be stronger than a more premium steel. (Hardness and toughness tend to have an inverse correlation, and since 8CR13MOV has less carbon than VG10, my guess is that the steel structure would have less of the brittle martensite.)

In fact, I would even argue that a cheaper steel would work better in this knife. Depending on heat treat and composition of course, but roughly speaking, hardness and toughness have an inverse correlation. Toughness might matter more because it would resist tip breakage and snapping, while dulling does not matter as much for a self defense knife. Since 8CR13MOV has less carbon than VG10, it should form less martensite and therefore be the tougher steel of the two. No reason to make the knife more expensive IMO.

-Keep G10 handles. It just inspires more confidence, I feel like FRN comes across as cheap. Also, depending on volume, G10 handles might mean less of a financial commitment.

-Combination Edged. I feel like most of the defensive cutting happens in the forward regions. Might be nice to make the first inch a plain edge for more utility use and save the forward areas for defense purposes. (A la Assist?)

I would honestly work on the deployment method first and foremost though. It's a big knife and hard to pull out of pocket.

[Polecat]

How about a P'kal like opening stud instead of an Emerson wave? I like the quick opening, but I like the p'kal stud. Also love the idea of sllent opening mechanism.

[JudasD]

Some of the comments on this thread almost sound like this is a for certain thing. This is still just a dream right?

JD

[PM1]

Some of the comments on this thread almost sound like this is a for certain thing. This is still just a dream right?

JD

Well, Sal said he has been planning it for a few years, but just hasn't gotten around to it yet. You can see Sal's quote in the very first post of the thread. So, I guess that it is not "just a dream", but an unfinished plan. I have a feeling that strong interest and good ideas from this forum may help crystallize the plan. We shall see.

[JudasD]

Well, Sal said he has been planning it for a few years, but just hasn't gotten around to it yet. You can see Sal's quote in the very first post of the thread. So, I guess that it is not "just a dream", but an unfinished plan. I have a feeling that strong interest and good ideas from this forum may help crystallize the plan. We shall see.

I missed his quote in the OP. Thank you for pointing that out. Now i am excited! a stronger tipped Civi would be very nice!!!

JD