My brother rusted S110V Manix

[Enkidude]

Looks like there are a couple of little rust spots inside the thumb hole. Don't miss 'em!

[Cliff Stamp]

That's a pretty good idea. I wonder if the steel manufacturer's have this sort of information.

Of course, how do you think industry professionals select steels.

[Cliff Stamp]

I agreee, but I would not mind having some standardized and simple stainless rating associated with different steels.

There is inherently no difference in corrosion resistance than any other property. If I was to suggest to you that you use a fillet knife in 1/2" stock then what are you likely to say. Based on your experience, if you do western style filleting you are likely to prefer 1/16-1/8" stock with a distal taper. It is likely you would not even have to use a 1/2" thick knife to realize it would be very problematic unless you were looking for entertainment. Thus you can get very specific in stock, giving an exact measurement. There is nothing at all which distinguishes asking for corrosion resistance in the same manner. The only problem is that you don't know the measurement. You can take a fillet knife which has the stiffness/cutting ability know what you want and then measure that and use the measurement when you look for another one, or even just look at it and judge it visually and make that judgement when you are looking at another knife.

However lets say you have a fillet knife and it has the corrosion resistance you want. Can you look at it or in any way determine the q-fog rating - no. This means you are unable to say anything besides you want a corrosion resistance similar to a Rapala filleting knife, or you need superior corrosion resistance to a Cold Steel fillet knife. This isn't as useful as saying you need a steel with a specific q-fog rating but it is better than nothing. However, and this is the critical however, if the customer base starts asking the questions, starts asking for g-fog ratings then they will get them. It is just a basic supply/demand issue. It only takes one manufacturer to realize this and once the information gets out there then everyone has to follow or they get left behind.

This already has happened significantly. In the late 90's on line knife discussion was a shot in the dark. It was difficult even to get basic descriptions like balance points or even sizes/weights of custom knives. As extreme as that sounds people often bought knives without even knowing the size/weight and knives were promoted in ways which would be obviously false if those basic specifications are known. However as people became more demanding in terms of asking for specifications then makers/manufacturers responded. Now it is common to see HRC levels, detailed geometry including edge thickness/angle, even grit finishes and details on heat treatment.

[Surfingringo]

I agreee, but I would not mind having some standardized and simple stainless rating associated with different steels.

There is inherently no difference in corrosion resistance than any other property. If I was to suggest to you that you use a fillet knife in 1/2" stock then what are you likely to say. Based on your experience, if you do western style filleting you are likely to prefer 1/16-1/8" stock with a distal taper. It is likely you would not even have to use a 1/2" thick knife to realize it would be very problematic unless you were looking for entertainment. Thus you can get very specific in stock, giving an exact measurement. There is nothing at all which distinguishes asking for corrosion resistance in the same manner. The only problem is that you don't know the measurement. You can take a fillet knife which has the stiffness/cutting ability know what you want and then measure that and use the measurement when you look for another one, or even just look at it and judge it visually and make that judgement when you are looking at another knife.

However lets say you have a fillet knife and it has the corrosion resistance you want. Can you look at it or in any way determine the q-fog rating - no. This means you are unable to say anything besides you want a corrosion resistance similar to a Rapala filleting knife, or you need superior corrosion resistance to a Cold Steel fillet knife. This isn't as useful as saying you need a steel with a specific q-fog rating but it is better than nothing. However, and this is the critical however, if the customer base starts asking the questions, starts asking for g-fog ratings then they will get them. It is just a basic supply/demand issue. It only takes one manufacturer to realize this and once the information gets out there then everyone has to follow or they get left behind.

This already has happened significantly. In the late 90's on line knife discussion was a shot in the dark. It was difficult even to get basic descriptions like balance points or even sizes/weights of custom knives. As extreme as that sounds people often bought knives without even knowing the size/weight and knives were promoted in ways which would be obviously false if those basic specifications are known. However as people became more demanding in terms of asking for specifications then makers/manufacturers responded. Now it is common to see HRC levels, detailed geometry including edge thickness/angle, even grit finishes and details on heat treatment.

Good points Cliff. I agree that all it would take is one company to start offering ratings and it could become commonplace in no time. I would also agree that the fact that this hasn't happened is some indication that the demand for that information is somewhat low.

[senorsquare]

Just yesterday the Mrs. noticed one of our kitchen knives had developed a spot of rust. "...I thought this was stainless...", I then explained that stainless doesn't mean "won't rust". Maybe should've got some of that Surgical Stainless :D

[bdblue]

Give Monsanto some H1 steel to play with.

[Donut]

That's a pretty good idea. I wonder if the steel manufacturer's have this sort of information.

Of course, how do you think industry professionals select steels.

I think they do it based on price and word of mouth.

[KevinOubre]

What knives/steels does he usually use (Assuming that they don't rust)?

Oh he rusts everything. Its just unavoidable. I gave him this to use just to see how well it would do. He usually uses 154CM. This actually went two weeks and this was the only rust on it. I really just wanted to see how S110V would fare in that environment. I knew it would rust eventually as most all steels will when exposed to those types of chemicals, but given the reputation S110V has for corrosion resistance, I was curious. Im actually impressed with its corrosion resistance now. That long in the plant with that little rust is really impressive.

[KevinOubre]

Give Monsanto some H1 steel to play with.

I plan on it.

[KevinOubre]

Hi Kevin, as a saltwater fisherman, I would be interested to see you do more testing. :D I might be getting one of those s110v Manix this year. If I do, I will definitely do some kayak fishing with it to see how it compares to s30v and other stainless steels in corrosion resistance...as well as edge retention.

He has uses the Para2 at work as well. The S30V didn't fare as well as the S110V in terms of rust. It will start to get significant light surface rust after a week, but its really easy to clean off. The S110V did much better than the S30V in corrosion resistance. As far as edge properties, I can tell you that S110V has next to no fine edge retention. The stuff plateaus very, very quickly. It works best with a coarse edge and you should try to keep it at 15dps or higher. Anything lower and you can get microchipping. Its not horrible to sharpen assuming you have diamond stones, CBN, Silicon Carbide, etc. Its obviously more wear resistant than S30V, but S30V has better fine edge properties and refines easier.

[Wanimator]

Give Monsanto some H1 steel to play with.

I plan on it.

I look forward to seeing the results.

[Surfingringo]

Hi Kevin, as a saltwater fisherman, I would be interested to see you do more testing. :D I might be getting one of those s110v Manix this year. If I do, I will definitely do some kayak fishing with it to see how it compares to s30v and other stainless steels in corrosion resistance...as well as edge retention.

He has uses the Para2 at work as well. The S30V didn't fare as well as the S110V in terms of rust. It will start to get significant light surface rust after a week, but its really easy to clean off. The S110V did much better than the S30V in corrosion resistance. As far as edge properties, I can tell you that S110V has next to no fine edge retention. The stuff plateaus very, very quickly. It works best with a coarse edge and you should try to keep it at 15dps or higher. Anything lower and you can get microchipping. Its not horrible to sharpen assuming you have diamond stones, CBN, Silicon Carbide, etc. Its obviously more wear resistant than S30V, but S30V has better fine edge properties and refines easier.

Good info, thank you!

[dbcad]

Give Monsanto some H1 steel to play with.

Concentrated Chlorine + H1 yields a very nasty mess

Charlie