Steel choices for the Spyderco kitchen knives

[Cliff Stamp]

Kitchen knives don't tend to cut a lot of abrasive material. What they do cut a lot of is very soft, easy to cut, not very abrasive and the cuts often either end by impacting on a hard surface of a cutting board. In this case then the question of what provides high edge retention may not be what people often think.

For example Spyderco has used the CATRA ranking for edge retention, however as shown by Verhoeven's work, the high silica content of the paper in the CATRA machine produces a rounded over, very worn apex, however is this really how kitchen knives dull? Here is an interesting article which says it isn't.

- http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~mpfs/papers/ ... -63538.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What they find is that in actual commercial use :

Professional knives were tested in well-controlled real field
conditions in three different meat-processing units: two meatprocessing
plants (bovine and poultry respectively) and a
butchery.

is that blunting doesn't happen by slow wear, the apex's are not rounded over as in the CATRA trials, they are deformed. They way they propose to rank steels for edge retention is to look at the resistance to deformation. This is the same way that Roman Landes ranked steels in his work - apex stability.

It might be interesting for Spyderco to at least, if possible, make a couple of test mules for their kitchen knives and use some steels which have a very high resistance to deformation at the apex vs a high wear resistance. This may not only give higher ease of sharpening and durability it might even provide higher edge retention. At the very least it is worth a look.

I have a number of the Spyderco kitchen knives and they excel in ergonomics, cutting ability and general performance. It would be pretty interesting to see Spyderco explore the application of some of the current research in the commercial industry to maximize the performance of their kitchen knives.

Given the relationship with Carpenter this should be easily possible, maybe even to the limit of getting a custom stainless steel made for kitchen knives and doing what would essentially be the equivalent of introducing the next S30V.

[KevinOubre]

I would like to see the kitchen knives in cladded Super Blue. Its proven already that it is a very effective kitchen steel if the proper care is observed. Obviously this would be more expensive, but id certainly pay it for a santoku and one of the utility knives.

[Bodog]

Wait a minute, most claddings are for strength, toughness, or corrosion resistance. Is there a reason you would like to put a highly corrosive steep on the outside of what would likely be a stainless core?

[Cliff Stamp]

Is there a reason you would like to put a highly corrosive steep on the outside of what would likely be a stainless core?

SuperBlue would be the core in clads.

[Bodog]

Ok, he wants super blue steel as the core. That makes more sense. I read it as blades cladded in super blue rather than blades in cladded super blue. My bad. Need to slow my reading down

[bearfacedkiller]

I use a kitchen knife in 1095 regularly and it works great for me. I don't chop bones with it and I use an oak cutting board. It holds an edge very well. I cut with a chopping, slicing, and rocking technique depending on what I am cutting. I would love to see some kitchen knives from Spyderco in Super Blue, a White steel, 52100 or some other carbon steel. With my 1095 kitchen knife and my 52100 mule I find that I am able to achieve a very high level of sharpness with minimal effort and when using them the way I do in the kitchen that they hold that high level of sharpness very well. I have had similar results with my Super Blue Delica which has been my pocket paring knife for quite a while now.

[Cliff Stamp]

Do you notice any issue with difference in corrosion of 1095 vs 52100. That is the one of the main promoted advantages of even small amounts of chromium, the other being ease of production.

[bearfacedkiller]

I haven't had any rusting but both knives obviously developed a dark stain almost instantly. I don't try to avoid the patina and allow it form as a corrosion barrier. I also always wash and dry them both within 15 minutes of use so I haven't noticed any differences in rusting (as in the brown stuff). I will say that the 1095 seemed to stain much quicker than the 52100 did. The 1095 knife is a Chinese Chefs Knife at around 55-56 according to Dexter Russell. The mule is, I believe, a bit harder at a over 60. That should make a difference as well, correct?

[Cliff Stamp]

In corrosion resistance, it depends on how it is hardened. The corrosion resistance can increase with hardness but can also decrease.

[JD Spydo]

I guess I run the risk of being laughed at :o but one blade steel I've found dependable for kitchen use is the AUS-8 blade on my Spyderco CATCHERMAN model. It is a fully serrated model but I very rarely have to sharpen it>> maybe twice a year at most. I also once had a plain edged blade with AUS-8 I used in the kitchen and it served me well also.

The other non-culinary blade I use in the kitchen is my Temperance 1 model in VG-10 and again when working with food I don't sharpen it much either.

I will go out on a limb and say that the MBS-26 that is the blade steel on my Spyderco models K04 & K05 has been quite satisfactory but for some strange reason I tend to like the AUS-8 better.

[Bodog]

The santoku I bought about a month ago has been really good, but it's ground really thin. It's actually the thinnest knife I've owned so I don't know if MBS26 performs better or worse than another steel would in the kitchen. I'm happy with the knife as a whole package and if MBS26 is part of the reason then hooya MBS26.

[Cliff Stamp]

I will go out on a limb and say that the MBS-26 that is the blade steel on my Spyderco models K04 & K05 has been quite satisfactory but for some strange reason I tend to like the AUS-8 better.

That is an interesting point, what is the performance difference?

[Cliff Stamp]

I'm happy with the knife as a whole package and if MBS26 is part of the reason then hooya MBS26.

MBS-26 and other similar steels are pretty curious knife steels because how they are viewed is almost completely opposite depending on the other user base of the person. If you are used to steels like 52100 and AEB-L then MBS-26 is a pretty coarse/high-carbide steel, but if you are used so 440C and above (S90V, m390, etc.) then MBS-26 is a low-carbide steel.

I really like the way Spyderco has handled this steel as it is pretty ductile and resistant to damage. I zero ground my old utility blade so the edge is ~6 dps and I use it pretty harsh at times, cutting against bones and other hard materials and the edge just gets mashed in and rolls. If I don't go crazy with it then it cuts exceptionally well.

[3rdGenRigger]

I'm also quite impressed with MBS-26, but I do think that the argument for increased apex stability makes total sense in the scope of use regarding kitchen chores. I'd be VERY interested in a set of sprint run Spyderco kitchen knives in a Japanese White or Blue carbon steel (Clad or not) due to the apex stability. M4 might be an interesting option too because it is known for quite high apex stability, but is also fairly wear resistant as well. Might be something to consider, at least to those who don't put as much stock in corrosion resistance. A thin stock, high radius hollow grind H1 kitchen knife could also be an interesting alternative as it is quite damage resistant and could make for a great "Minimal maintenance" kitchen knife.

[Bodog]

I'm happy with the knife as a whole package and if MBS26 is part of the reason then hooya MBS26.

MBS-26 and other similar steels are pretty curious knife steels because how they are viewed is almost completely opposite depending on the other user base of the person. If you are used to steels like 52100 and AEB-L then MBS-26 is a pretty coarse/high-carbide steel, but if you are used so 440C and above (S90V, m390, etc.) then MBS-26 is a low-carbide steel.

I really like the way Spyderco has handled this steel as it is pretty ductile and resistant to damage. I zero ground my old utility blade so the edge is ~6 dps and I use it pretty harsh at times, cutting against bones and other hard materials and the edge just gets mashed in and rolls. If I don't go crazy with it then it cuts exceptionally well.

Are you able to successfully straighten the rolls out with a steel where they're still functional for a while?

[Cliff Stamp]

If I wanted to, yes they could be steeled out. I tend to just grind the steel back. From a point of view of preserving the knife this isn't the most ideal method, but i am more interested in maximizing performance. I have more knives than I could ever wear out even with aggressive use and sharpening.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

A friend of mine had a set of kitchen knives, totally hand made, the steel was from old carbon spring steel saw material. The maker cut the blade shapes out and reground and sharpened them. They had a permanent stain/patina but sliced through meats, veggies, breads, string, etc, with ease.

That being said, the Spyderco kitchen knife steel is very good.

[bearfacedkiller]

Making knives out of old saw blades seems to have been common at one time. A company called Old Forge used to do it and I have used one of them. We could probably benefit from learning to repurpose stuff again. :rolleyes: everything has to have that new car smell these days.

[sal]

The MBS-26 that we use is a propriety steel mde by Daido foundry for Masahiro only. It was an interesting steel in that it could be ground very thin, mainain a serration tooth and resist corrosion very well. We did a fair amount of testing (use, not lab) on cutting boards with very good results.

sal

[JD Spydo]

I will go out on a limb and say that the MBS-26 that is the blade steel on my Spyderco models K04 & K05 has been quite satisfactory but for some strange reason I tend to like the AUS-8 better.

That is an interesting point, what is the performance difference?

And that's an interesting question because if I compare my two MBS-26 blades i.e. the K-04 & K-05 to either my AUS-8 Catcherman or my Temperance 1 with VG-10 it is sort of like apples versus oranges in a sense.

For instance comparing the K-04 or K-05 to my AUS-8 full SE Catcherman it would be more of a serrated pattern comparison rather than a blade steel comparison. Because comparing MBS-26 to AUS-8 I would say they probably need sharpening about equal overall. Now I do find the serration pattern on my MBS-26 kitchen Spyders slightly a bit more aggressive cutting various food items. But the low profile serrations that I dearly love one the AUS-8 Catcherman work great on some food items whereas the MBS-26 rounded/wavy serrations tend to work on veggies better and the SE Catcherman with AUS-8 seems to be a dream blade on fish, poultry and meats in general.

Now I really do use my Temperance 1 with VG-10 steel and I'm speaking strictly of my plain edged version by the way really holds an edge a lot better than either one of the aforementioned.