CQI Caly 3.5 ZDP-189

[Liquid Cobra]

Spyderco is all about CQI. We see it in so many models, constantly changing, constantly getting better. It is one of their better business practices that really makes me attracted to them as a brand. With that said, I've never heard anyone say anything good about the use of 420J2 steel used to protect the ZDP-189 core. I have on the other hand seen plenty of people wish the blade was made purely with ZDP-189. Maybe it is time for an upgrade. The only thing I like about the laminate choice, is the line it creates on the blade which is nice looking.

I don't know if there is a reason to use 420J2, perhaps it is up to the maker in Japan. It seems like something that would really elevate this model would be to lose the 420J2. With the discontinuation of the regular Caly 3.5, it could be too late in the game to make this change. Is the CF Caly 3.5 to be discontinued anytime soon?

I've come so close to buying this model but I always chicken out at the last second because of the 420J2. I've heard it's so soft you can scratch it with your fingernail. I know blades get scratched with use, but that seems like it's pushing it in terms of quality for what is in all other aspects a really nice knife.

[ManixFan]

Spyderco is all about CQI. We see it in so many models, constantly changing, constantly getting better. It is one of their better business practices that really makes me attracted to them as a brand. With that said, I've never heard anyone say anything good about the use of 420J2 steel used to protect the ZDP-189 core. I have on the other hand seen plenty of people wish the blade was made purely with ZDP-189. Maybe it is time for an upgrade. The only thing I like about the laminate choice, is the line it creates on the blade which is nice looking.

I don't know if there is a reason to use 420J2, perhaps it is up to the maker in Japan. It seems like something that would really elevate this model would be to lose the 420J2. With the discontinuation of the regular Caly 3.5, it could be too late in the game to make this change. Is the CF Caly 3.5 to be discontinued anytime soon?

I've come so close to buying this model but I always chicken out at the last second because of the 420J2. I've heard it's so soft you can scratch it with your fingernail. I know blades get scratched with use, but that seems like it's pushing it in terms of quality for what is in all other aspects a really nice knife.

If you don't have the VG-10 Caly 3.5 that is what I'd be jumping on right now.......before they are all gone. I really, really like mine. I also have the CF Caly 3 that I picked up 2nd hand that has some scratching on the cladding.....not too bad, but still there. I haven't added to it but then again I haven't carried it too often after getting the VG-10 3.5

[PayneTrain]

I know some people have had rust issues with ZDP, but I find it to be really rather stain resistant. In fact, I've been purposely trying to work up a patina by using my Stretch (solid ZDP) on foods and letting acidic juices sit on it for longer than necessary, and even that is taking for ever. I treat it pretty much like a stainless knife to no ill effect. I personally do not see the point in cladding it. In fact, and I feel like I've said this a million times now, I really love the slow, subtle, dark, ghostly haze of a patina that I've been getting on a solid ZDP-189 blade and I think it should be a selling point. It's similar to a light pearl coat on a car. Sometimes you see it, sometimes you don't.

[Liquid Cobra]

I had the vg-10 model, sold it to free up some cash for another purchase but you bet I'll be getting another. I want both models! But like I said, I can't get over the 420J2.

I'm with you PayneTrain, I do enjoy a nice dull patina.

[Joshua J.]

They use clad ZDP so they can stamp it. My understanding is that the maker doesn't have a laser and can't produce blanks any other way.
Stamping is generally more economical anyway.

[elena86]

Speaking of CQI , my least problem is laminated or not, Vg10...etc.I had 3 Caly 3.5's in VG10 and all had up-down blade play.All 3 of them !!! And I am not talking slight blade play but I could felt the blade moving during light shallow cutting motion.I was so frustrated ! None of my Caly 3's have this issue.That amount of up-down blade play was unacceptable for me and I sold 2 and kept only one for the collection.

[Evil D]

I'm pretty sure it's due to the maker. I too would love to see it done away with. This is why of the two, I'd probably buy a ZDP Stretch over the Caly.

[Jazz]

I really dislike those soft 420 deals. I've heard they're used because of heat treat issues. I'd really like if VG 10 could be used instead. I stonewashed my 3 and 3.5 but haven't used them much to see if it helps, but it sure looks good.

[ABX2011]

I don't like how easily the 420J2 scratches either. I also don't like the asymmetric lamination line.
I prefer the standard VG-10 3.5. The G-10 gives much better grip than the carbon fiber.

[Enigma]

I believe that they use 420 for the following reasons:

1. lower production/manufacturing costs. ZDP is a lot harder/tougher to machine grind, 420 is also cheaper to buy.
2. By cladding the blade you can increase the blades toughness with out sacrificing on its edge holding ability, you end up basically with the edge retention of zdp and the strength/durability/toughness of 420 = best of both worlds
3. aesthetics, san mai blades look awesome.

I must admit that the 420 does seem to scratch quite easily, but that is a small price to pay for the performance.

Just my 2 cents worth

[Donut]

I've heard that the Moki maker doesn't have a laser to cut the hole in solid ZDP. I'd love to see them get a laser and make it in solid ZDP.

[Scroop]

Agreed, just like the Super Blue sprints. Look at the secondary market as to how popular the non laminated SB is!

I edc a custom scaled endura 4 with zdp and have no issues with staining and find that the endura spint SB that is in rotation to easy to muck up the finish under easy use. It looked so bad that i scotchbrighted the blade to hide the scratching.

Maybe a stonewash finish on laminates would improve wear...i dunno

I have not pulled the trigger on the caly zdp because it is laminated but would be all over it if it was naked :D

[twinboysdad]

Had the SB E4 and really longed for a solid SB instead of clad

[paladin]

I feel like I've said this a million times now, I really love the slow, subtle, dark, ghostly haze of a patina that I've been getting on a solid ZDP-189 blade and I think it should be a selling point. It's similar to a light pearl coat on a car. Sometimes you see it, sometimes you don't.

You mean like on my Cruwear Millie? :cool:

Note the red mite photobomb in the Spyderhole :p

[PayneTrain]

Oh neat, nice Cruwear! The only color mine ever took was a few specks of red because of sweat, but other than that it's remained stainless despite being one of two folders I use in the kitchen (the other being my ZDP Stretch). That's great to know that it ages like ZDP. I love that look. It just seems like a crime to me to hide these steels under 420J.

[Liquid Cobra]

Hmm sounds like pure ZDP isn't an option if you guys are right about the laser which I'm sure you are. Maybe my best bet would be to get the vg-10 model and do a blade swap. I don't like to blade swap though.

[paladin]

Thank you Payne...

mine got that way from cutting quite a bit of cardboard & plastic and I've got the habit of wiping the blade a lot with my fingers, back of my hand, forearm, etc.

Maybe I'm spreading my oils, ph, etc. around evenly with all the obsessive skin-wiping...just a guess :o

I've also polished it a couple of times with chrome polish <believe it or not> when it was getting darker that I liked...and it just kinda evened out like a good quality, well-loved, well-used old hand tool. Just like a tool steel should do, IMHO. :spyder:

[ohcyclist]

The back story here on the reason for the cladding is very enlightening for me. I had no idea that moki did not have a laser.

I carry a zdp caly 3.5 regularly and have not had major issues. It does scratch some but I mostly cut softer things like opening mail, breaking down a box or disassembling fruit. To date the scratching has not bothered me, and the cladding line does add some character in my eyes.

I would love to see a kiwi 4 in carbon fiber and zdp.

[Evil D]

To be fair, I don't think it scratches any easier than H1. The first time I breathed on my Dragonfly it scratched.

[Nasgul]

There is more scratches than on VG10 but I don't really mind. A knife has to be used. :rolleyes:
You can also polish it, often...
Or Stonewashed it... It's what I may do in the future.

But for now, the thing I don't like it's the non real smooth openning of my Caly 3. :confused:
(Don't know if Caly3 and Caly3.5 have been built exactly the same ? )

Don't you think copper washers or something like that could help a lot ?! (Like on the G10 Dragonfly)