A change in tone

[Ankerson]

I'm goin fishin, :)

Lance,

LOL :D

I have one of your knives here that I have start dealing with today so I have no time for debates. :eek:


Jim

[MichaelScott]

Belief is the acceptance of a thing without evidence for it.

We have to be careful here because there are many definitions for terms. Theory can be used to mean a loose guess, but that isn't what is meant when someone describes evolutionary theory. In the philosophy of knowledge a belief is just a position on the truth value of a proposition. A belief becomes knowledge when it has certain qualifiers depending on the specific theory of knowledge. A common one that many people are introduced to is that you know something when it is a justified true belief. Most people don't hold to this past the introductory stage because of Gettier counter examples.

I think to attempt to evaluate and judge most things on the basis of evidence, logic and the scientific method is to narrow one's appreciation and experiences of life.

Feynman has a wonderful little piece where he responds to an artist who argues science destroys the beauty of a flower. Feynman responds that he can see more of it because of his understanding not less. Understanding doesn't limit what he can see, it expands it.

I don't think anyone has argued that we should only discuss empirical claims. However I have made the argument that if you are going to make an empirical claim then you should consider the evidence.

If you would like to continue this discussion, I suggest doing so in PMs. Fact, theories of knowledge, philosophies and esthetics aren't relevant to this thread. I would like to conclude with Steven Jay Gould's definition of fact and theory:

"fact is a scientific explanation that has been tested and confirmed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing it; a theory is a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence generating testable and falsifiable predictions... And facts and theories are different things, not rungs on a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts."

[Ankerson]

I don't come here to debate, discussion, yes.

If I want to read a book I will go to a book store or a Library and sit down with a cup of coffee and a pastry and read it.

If I want to argue or debate I will go to a Political or Religious forum and or a Computer related forum, I don't normally go to those anymore.

[MichaelScott]

I agree. That's why I offered to continue with Cliff via PM if he desires, but not here. I think this topic has wobbled too far afield. As I hope I've said, my preference is for civil and interesting discussions based generally on Spyderco, the company and their products. If I wander too far afield from that, please, someone smack me back on track.

[Ankerson]

I agree. That's why I offered to continue with Cliff via PM if he desires, but not here. I think this topic has wobbled too far afield. As I hope I've said, my preference is for civil and interesting discussions based generally on Spyderco, the company and their products. If I wander too far afield from that, please, someone smack me back on track.

Michael,

No, it wasn't about you at all. :)

Sorry if you thought that it was.

I have actually enjoyed reading your posts so far.

Jim

[MichaelScott]

Ankerson, no, not at all. I was just remarking that I want to be careful to not get sucked into irrelevant debate. If a topic thread supports a certain amount of respectful and thoughtful discussion, then I'm ok with it. But, I think some 'conversations' get off track when some folks are trying to persuade others to accept their views or beliefs. I once heard a serious and very smart man who has been in many public debates over the years say, when asked if he had ever experienced one of his debate opponents changing his mind, declare that it was more likely to see a supernova exploding overhead. Those are the kind of debates I want to stay out of unless the point is to debate. I think this forum is not the place for that.

So, feel free to smack me if I wander.... :D

[Ankerson]

Ankerson, no, not at all. I was just remarking that I want to be careful to not get sucked into irrelevant debate. If a topic thread supports a certain amount of respectful and thoughtful discussion, then I'm ok with it. But, I think some 'conversations' get off track when some folks are trying to persuade others to accept their views or beliefs. I once heard a serious and very smart man who has been in many public debates over the years say, when asked if he had ever experienced one of his debate opponents changing his mind, declare that it was more likely to see a supernova exploding overhead. Those are the kind of debates I want to stay out of unless the point is to debate. I think this forum is not the place for that.

So, feel free to smack me if I wander.... :D

Michael,

I think you will be fine. :)

I was just trying to make the point that every discussion isn't a debate IMO.

And if I want to read a Novel I will go and do so.

Jim

[MichaelScott]

If you are so inclined, try mine: The Q Fragments, Michael Douglas Scott. Available in paper or Kindle formats on Amazon.

[Ankerson]

If you are so inclined, try mine: The Q Fragments, Michael Douglas Scott. Available in paper or Kindle formats on Amazon.

Michael,

Oh yeah, that looks like it will be a good read. :)

Jim

[Scroop]

I don't come here to debate, discussion, yes.

If I want to read a book I will go to a book store or a Library and sit down with a cup of coffee and a pastry and read it.

If I want to argue or debate I will go to a Political or Religious forum and or a Computer related forum, I don't normally go to those anymore.

You sir, win the internet!

[Ankerson]

I don't come here to debate, discussion, yes.

If I want to read a book I will go to a book store or a Library and sit down with a cup of coffee and a pastry and read it.

If I want to argue or debate I will go to a Political or Religious forum and or a Computer related forum, I don't normally go to those anymore.

You sir, win the internet!

I don't know about all of that. :D

That was just my personal opinion, nothing more. :)

[SpyderNut]

...You want a special sub forum for something? How about a sub forum for arguing and bickering so I don't have to see it clogging up General Discussion.

So, I'm gonna go outside today and use my knives, enjoy them, and leave this crap behind. Who's with me?

+1. I'm with you, David. Good post.

[Halfneck]

This argument reminds me of guys arguing about the acting in a porn movie.

The reason I come to this forum is to see knives and read about knives. When it starts getting too nit-picky and argumentative, I don't enjoy it and go elsewhere to read about knives.