Veff vs Spyderco

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Blerv
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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby Blerv » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:38 am

I've never used Veff's but wouldn't be opposed if they came on a knife I liked. Since Spyderco has a couple chisel ground knives like the Dogtag maybe it would be worth sending one out for a few serrations?

My science background is feeble but it does seem they could have a pull-cut advantage while a disadvantage to push cutting. That and with the longer scallops without peaks I assume they will snag less on fibrous materials but also bite less aggressive (ie Spyderco) on other materials.

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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby VashHash » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:00 pm

No pics or anything just some info. So i put my veff serrated spyderhawk back into rotation to do a comparison to the standard spyderhawk. I honestly find the SE spyderhawk does a better job in pretty much all aspects. Here's why. The standard spyderhawk can cut in both directions and heres where it really wins out. It cuts when you pull straight back. I find the get the best performance from the veff serrations you have to turn the knife slightly as you pull it so the serrations rotate in the cut. Maybe this would be different if it were say a straight blade with these serrations. Rope was about the same with each knife. Maybe a slight advantage to the Veff if the rope was small enough to fit in the serration. When cutting nylon webbing is when i found the veff serrations needed rotation to cut with the most efficiency. The SE spyderhawk could just be pulled through. I didn't find any advantage in cutting cloth with a sharp serrated knife it seemed to cut about as well. I think the blade shape played a big part in this with either knife as it fed the material to the edge when pulling. I didn't get a chance to cut any Nylon lifting straps. Just nylon webbing. Of course i remember last time the SE did a better job because i was cutting 3 ply straps and had to use a sawing motion. This is were the veffs have that draw back of not cutting on the push only on the pull. When i get a chance i will do the strap test. I would like to see about maybe trying the veff serrations on a spyderco sheepsfoot blade. Have to track down an old PE model for that though. All in all i don't find them to be more advantageous that spyderedge knives at all. I'm so used to sharpening the SE edges now that it seems like more work to sharpen the veff serrations.

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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby Cliff Stamp » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:17 pm

VashHash wrote:I'm so used to sharpening the SE edges now that it seems like more work to sharpen the veff serrations.
Thanks for the details, can you expand on that point a little?

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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby VashHash » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:30 pm

With the triangle stone you can just pass the SE edge on them with little effort once you get it down. You have to individually sharpen each veff serration. It's not Difficult but it's not as quick as touching up an SE edge on a spyderco with the triangle stone. I just don't feel comfortable using that method for the veffs as i feel it would dull the points I use a cereamic rod instead.

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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby The Deacon » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:36 pm

With the exception of my Spyderco K01 Bread Knife which, for the record, is one of only two Spyderco branded knives I'm aware of that does not use Spyderco's Spyderedge serration pattern, I'm not a huge fan of serrations. That said, I find it interesting, and somewhat telling that there have to be at least a dozen knife companies that have copied the Spyderedge style of serrations or a variation of it that uses either 1 or 3 small serrations instead of 2, between the large ones. I'm pretty certain there are also an equal or larger number who still use the "traditional", (single size, vertically oriented) pattern found on the K01 and C27. How many companies, other than CRKT, have adopted the Veff pattern?
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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby VashHash » Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:00 pm

The Deacon wrote:With the exception of my Spyderco K01 Bread Knife which, for the record, is one of only two Spyderco branded knives I'm aware of that does not use Spyderco's Spyderedge serration pattern, I'm not a huge fan of serrations. That said, I find it interesting, and somewhat telling that there have to be at least a dozen knife companies that have copied the Spyderedge style of serrations or a variation of it that uses either 1 or 3 small serrations instead of 2, between the large ones. I'm pretty certain there are also an equal or larger number who still use the "traditional", (single size, vertically oriented) pattern found on the K01 and C27. How many companies, other than CRKT, have adopted the Veff pattern?
None and when I spoke to Tom Veff I'm pretty sure he said CRKT was going to drop them

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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby The Deacon » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:55 am

VashHash wrote:None and when I spoke to Tom Veff I'm pretty sure he said CRKT was going to drop them
Interesting. I didn't know that, but I did notice that even CRKT uses the Spyderedge style on some of their knives.

I know this doesn't actually prove anything and that, when it comes to rewarding quality, the marketplace is far from perfect. Fifty four years have passed since Newton Minnow declared television to be "a vast wasteland" and, by and large, it still is one. I'm sure we can all cite other examples where mediocrity has triumphed over quality in the competition for sales. But it is interesting, nonetheless.
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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby mark greenman » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:16 am

The Deacon wrote:
VashHash wrote: Fifty four years have passed since Newton Minnow declared television to be "a vast wasteland" and, by and large, it still is one.
Interesting, because personally I've found that we're living in a golden age of television, and that TV has largely surpassed film as both an art form and a source of entertainment.

With the rise of DVD's and then streaming, TV has transitioned from single serving 22 minute doses of entertainment to multi-year affairs of character development and intrigue.

The Shield, House of Cards, Breaking Bad, The Wire, Mad Men... and more coming out all the time.


So, as for serrations, I've personally found that the shallow serration pattern used on the Endura and Delica Wave's worked the best. They had the easy pull cutting "bite" of SE, without the snagging I've found on steeper SE patters.
Image

I've found that the steeper the SE, the more prone it is to snagging. For example the steep SE pattern I had on my ATR proved disastrous, it would tear and snag in pretty much everything.
Image

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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby VashHash » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:34 am

I agree in steeper serrations being the worst. The worst serrations I've ever encounter were on a lone wolf D2 model not steel. . Practically useless unless you want to snag on something. Personally the Serrated ayoob is one of my best performers. It sliced a water bottle into 3 pieces. Each time the water bottle stayed still and the cut section flew off and water poured out. I was utterly amazed by this. The bottle was free standing with no additional support. Trying different things is how we learn though. That's why I got VEFF serrations on a Spyderhawk. I honestly would still like to give them a chance on a sheep's foot blade or other straight edge knife. Of course I'd prefer them on something longer so the yojimbo 2 is out for me. I'm thinking 3.5" minimum blade.

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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby Cliff Stamp » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:24 am

One thing to keep in mind is that not everyone sharpens knives and not everyone is looking for precise cuts. If you cut with a lot of force and you just want to make one piece of something into two then those pointed serrations have tremendous cutting power.

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Blerv
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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby Blerv » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:18 am

Cliff Stamp wrote:One thing to keep in mind is that not everyone sharpens knives and not everyone is looking for precise cuts. If you cut with a lot of force and you just want to make one piece of something into two then those pointed serrations have tremendous cutting power.
For sure. I'm dancing back and forth on that Dogtag Veff regrind. I contacted Tom and he charges $60 for 4 serrations. Not a bad deal if you consider what it turns a knife into; basically regrind performance for a thick knife. The deal becomes questionable for a 1" blade and a knife that now you have $150 invested in. :o

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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby ahardb0dy » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:31 pm

I recently contacted Veff and he told me he now charges $80 for 4 serrations.

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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby Evil D » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:40 pm

ahardb0dy wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:31 pm
I recently contacted Veff and he told me he now charges $80 for 4 serrations.

Meanwhile Willey Knives charges $6. That guy is delusional.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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sal
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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby sal » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:26 pm

I know Willey and he is passionate and does a good job.

sal

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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:52 pm

I spoke to VEFF once after purchasing his sharpening rods which Cough, Cough, ahem yeah shiny foot prints and all that. Lets just say I did not do business with him.

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Re: Veff vs Spyderco

Postby Evil D » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:30 am

sal wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:26 pm
I know Willey and he is passionate and does a good job.

sal


You've mentioned this several times, which is why I feel pretty confident about sending him one of my Sliverax to get some teeth cut into it. I think it's a prime candidate for SE.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David


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