Tamahagane Spyderco!

[Jamesh Bond]

With Spyderco being a leader in exotic steels, it would be awesome to see a tamahagane blade offered by them at some point. Like on another mule run or whatnot. Word.

Definitely wont be holding my breath on that one tho ...

[Mike Blue]

If the material has been worked beyond the "as bloomed" state and has good haha and very cool chikei the beauty of the steel would make a very nice blade.

The sad detractions are that it is technically uninteresting except to collectors or steel addicts like myself, it's only plain carbon and iron. It's not as readily available from qualified provenance and would be very difficult to request any minor alloying elements to bring it into contention with some of the modern wunderstahls (think vanadium or titanium as a carbide refining element, yes, there are old Koto swords with both in the steel, but naturally acquired in the native ores, like wootz). It would require maintenance as it will rust. Getting the heat treatment correct with hamon will be a challenge and if they are made in Japan, it will be stressful getting any to leave the country without a lot of influence.

If Spyderco made one, I'd buy one. If they made one from wootz, I'd be right there too. I bet they would be expensive.

[VashHash]

Yeah i would think this would be very pricey. It has to be hand forged. Iron sand is the original particle metallurgy. Can't say I wouldn't buy one. I'd just have to see what would come of it. This place is all about dreaming though. Many a knife has come into production and sprint because of this place.

[Cliff Stamp]

It would be an interesting Mule steel to compare to modern alloys.

As a side note, plain iron + carbon is all that it is some of the best prized Japanese steels, White steels for example.

[sal]

Obtaining enough material would be challenging. Adding carbon is done in a charcoal forge, even more challenging and then rolling it into sheet at the right thickness would also be very challenging. Easier to wait until I get younger. :p

Would Hitachi "white" serve?

sal

[SpyderNut]

Hitachi White would be a fine "substitute" IMHO. Would take that in a heartbeat.

[KevinOubre]

Isnt Hitachi white simply are more refined version of the tamahagane recipe? The stuff (tamahagane) has never seemed particularly impressive from what I have seen of it. It looks cool, almost an far eastern damascene pattern look, but it doesn't seem like it would have any greater performance difference than 52100 or 1084 depending on the carbon content of the tamahagane.

[Stuart Ackerman]

Any Spyderco in a flat ground White Paper steel would interest me to the point of no sleep till I held one...

[VashHash]

I'd be interested in white steel. Tamahagane is just not cost effective. I recently purchased a higonokami in SK steel. I want the white steel and blue steel version too now.

[DutchBlades]

I would take the Hitachi over a Tamahagane blade any day of the week.
It's way to labour intensife and expensive to make, especially on an unproven platform.
And from what I've read, Hitachi is a superior steel.
So yes, one Hitachi Spyder for me please! :D

[3rdGenRigger]

White #1 would be amazing.

[The Deacon]

High priced non stainless steel with typical Japanese claims of mysterious origins and super powers. Count me out.

[tvenuto]

High priced non stainless steel with typical Japanese claims of mysterious origins and super powers. Count me out.

I know, and this one doesn't even have SUPER in the name!

[Mike Blue]

Hitachi White would serve nicely, easier to obtain, clean and well understood. Hmm, makes me think of a prototypical ethnic shape now.

[Cliff Stamp]

Isnt Hitachi white simply are more refined version of the tamahagane recipe?

In regards to base materials properties - they are both simple high carbon steels. Hitachi White is a modern ultra-pure version.

I would ask this question - if someone like Ed Fowler offered a run of his triple quenched / hammer forged 52100 for a run of mules would people really object?

How many actual evaluations are there on tamahagane blades where people really use them as they would a basic knife? Would I argue that it is better on a practical level than White - no.

But this is based on very sparce data and so it is a reasonable but weak conclusion. Imagine if you could make one which was based on a lot of actual data, I think its interesting.

[Mike157]

Isnt Hitachi white simply are more refined version of the tamahagane recipe?

In regards to base materials properties - they are both simple high carbon steels. Hitachi White is a modern ultra-pure version.

I would ask this question - if someone like Ed Fowler offered a run of his triple quenched / hammer forged 52100 for a run of mules would people really object?

How many actual evaluations are there on tamahagane blades where people really use them as they would a basic knife? Would I argue that it is better on a practical level than White - no.

But this is based on very sparce data and so it is a reasonable but weak conclusion. Imagine if you could make one which was based on a lot of actual data, I think its interesting.

Maybe we can all chip in and have Walter Sorrells make you a Tamahagane mule for testing. It would be fun to document the project from dirt to final testing. (I can day dream right?)

As far as a white steel mule. I'm in. Mike

[SpyderEdgeForever]

What about a Spyderco version of the traditional Japanese pocket-folder knife: The Higonokami? Would it work?

Sortof like these, but, with trademarked Spyderhole and possibly serrations, and other features, perhaps even an FRN handle of some sort:

http://www.handeyesupply.com/products/h ... andle-75mm" target="_blank

http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product-list/15" target="_blank

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higonokami" target="_blank

http://www.garrettwade.com/brass-cased- ... /02E05.01/" target="_blank

[Jamesh Bond]

Sal, Id love ANY steel you guys made into a knife.

Tamahagane has simply always fascinated me. The wood-like grain that shows when polished is sweet. The work that goes into it. The ART behind it.

Of course there are much better options now. Prolly never happen.

But if it does, ill be glad God gave me two kidneys ...

[Mike Blue]

Ed Schempp and I did a bloom smelt just a few weeks ago. If we were interested, we both have rolling mills and can address billet preparation. Production of "enough" is a limiting factor. 35 lb blooms are acceptable for a typical burn. How many pounds of finished steel will Sal need to even consider the prototypes? Building the smelter is not quick and a burn typically lasts most of a day, not to mention the several days before hand building the stack. There is a risk that not all of the bloom is qualitatively adequate and that reprocessing will take time. Then there is the very boring consolidation process (folding and welding). To cover western shop rates, I conservatively calculated (2003 dollars) a minimum of 500 USD per pound to not to bankrupt from production.

I am not interested in providing home smelted steels for a couple reasons. First, because this project deserves a billet with data as Cliff requests (found in Japan), and a respect for the roots of knowledge defined by the lifetimes of smiths and metal smelters who came before me (go to the people who have the most experience). Finding the right steel in Japan is easy enough, but will require some significant negotiation to obtain some due to their traditions. That's where this can become impractical. Second, because of the variables involved in production.

White steel is a known quantity without cultural strings attached to the purchase, available in ready amounts. It's not unreasonable for us to make a mule...

[On Edge]

Hitachi White would be something I would be interested in.

~ edge