More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

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jackknifeh
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More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#1

Post by jackknifeh »

I decided to try the UF ceramic stone for sharpening (honing) straight razors. I started learning to hone them in Sep. 2013. So I've got 15-16 months into the learning process. In the past 2-3 months I'm seeing improvement that equals in what I'll call "shave ready" razors. It's taken a lot of practice and getting over one hurdle I'll warn anyone about who wants to learn to hone razors and already can sharpen a knife. Please don't take any knife sharpening knowledge to the bench when learning to hone razors. Do your best just to forget it and go by the advice of the experts. While an apex is an apex it's a different technique to acquire the razor sharp edge on a straight razor. Enough of that.

I've been using a 1k, 4k, 8 and 16k Shapton glass stone set for honing. Yesterday I used the UF stone instead of the 16k. When I shaved this morning I was surprised at the results. I was thinking "dang, this is better than when using the 16k". So I quit shaving after one side of my face. I took 3 other razors and went through a good touch up using the 4k, 8, Spyderco UF and than stropping. I wanted to take the razors back in grit so by the time I used the UF stone there wouldn't be any left over edge from previous honing and stropping. All 3 of the razors did a great job. I was going to post the results here but didn't right away. I waited until I had enough whiskers to shave again which was a few minutes ago. This time I took another razor and "butter knifed" it. :) Yup, I dragged the edge on the stone dulling the crap out of it. Then I started with the 1k Shapton glass to re-set the bevels. Then the 4k and 8k Shapton glass. Then I stropped with a felt strop with .5 micron CBN spray on it and then a kangaroo strop. The strops are hanging strops but that shouldn't matter. Then I shaved a few strokes. The razor could shave ok but it definitely wasn't as sharp as before. So I sat down again and used the 8k stone again. Then I finished with the UF stone and repeated the stropping. I stropped 20-25 passes on the felt strop and about 75 passes on the roo. I then finished shaving and the edge was much better. This brief experience tells me the UF stone is at least a passable finishing stone for straight razors. And I may end up using it and not using the 16k at all. No real opinion on that right now because as time goes on I'm sure I'll learn more, become more skilled and my opinions will change. BUT, when the UF stone can be used as the last stone for razor honing just prior to stropping that says a lot to me. It is a very FINE grit. Do you think that's why they use the word ULTRA? :)

Other things to consider are my lack of experience. One year into learning to hone razors is like one year learning to sharpen knives. You can be proficient but you are no expert IMO. If there are any straight razor users or honers reading this I'd love to hear your opinions. Especially if you have an UF Spyderco stone to try. Up to this point I hadn't thought it would do very well as the last stone. Maybe the fine and UF grits could be used before a final 12k or higher finishing stone. Another thing to keep in mind is I have no experience with stones other than the Shapton glass for razors. The third thing to keep in mind about my findings is I haven't used the UF stone on razors enough to be 100% sure of my opinion. I'm just sure enough of my opinion for this to put me over the line on getting the 3" wide UF stone. I've wanted one for a long time but since I already have the 2" wide stone I couldn't justify the $90 or so the 306UF costs. I still can't really justify it but,,, :) Well, you know. :D Besides, I think my son might like the 2" wide UF stone.

Anyway, this is another example of outstanding (and surprising) excellent performance of the Spyderco sharpeners. What I do see in the future is trying the fine grit instead of using the Shapton glass stones. I'll just use the fine and UF Spyderco stones. When a bevel reset is needed I'm sure the 1k Shapton will be needed. I don't have the Spyderco medium stone but I don't think it should be used on razors. I may be wrong though. The coarser Shapton glass stones don't leave a scratch pattern anything like the pattern left by some other type stones of the same grit range. Diamond stones for example seem to leave a coarser scratch pattern. I have thought a time or two that the moldmaster stones I have for the EP would do nicely for razors. They leave a great, even scratch pattern. But I'm getting into a different subject. Right now I'm just happy to report how well the UF Spyderco does on straight razors.

Jack
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#2

Post by JD Spydo »

Well First of all Jack this is my take on the Spyderco "medium" stone and I don't care if it's the medium stone on the 204 Sharpmaker or the Spyderco 302 Benchstone>> frankly I don't see any difference in them and I've been using both of them for 10 years plus. Also the Spyderco medium benchstone is not as coarse as you may believe it is. It's really not a great deal more gritty than the fine stone is. Oh there is a noticable difference for sure but not a radical difference by any standard.

It doesn't surprise me that you had great results with your new Spyderco ultra-fine stone. When I first got my Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker it wasn't long after that the ultra-fine stone became available for the Sharpmaker and needless to say I jumped right on it. And I noticed considerably better results using the Sharpmaker with the ultra-fine stones to finish up with.

I've yet to buy or use any of the Shapton stones but they are on my list of new sharpening equipment to eventually obtain. But the more I'm learning about abrasives the more picky I'm getting in buying them. I too have done a great job on 2 different straight razors I own. Straight Razors are truly a different animal when it comes to sharpening or honing. But some of the principles are the same on both knives and straight razors.

Spyderco's sharpening equipment has never disappointed me when I've learned the proper uses of it. I'm anxiously awaiting the GAUNTLET sharpening kit that they are going to release in the near future> I have no doubt that it's going to be an excellent piece of equipment. I do wish that Spyderco had some more coarser sharpening stones but apparently they feel that with all the vast amount of diamond stones and other coarse stones that is already on the market there is apparently no need for them to sell a product of that type.

Bottom Line: Spyderco's UF stones are great. When I used to frequent a popular straight razor forum they constantly raved about the UF stones of Spyderco's. My jury is still out on the CBN stones but I've heard good about them and I'm anxious to try them out. But the Spyderco UF stone is top quality for all kinds of uses.
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#3

Post by dewildeman »

My wife got me a set of the UF stones for Christmas and I just put them to use this weekend. I don't use a straight razor but I do like a "shaving edge" on some of my knives. I was very impressed with the edge it put on the blades I sharpened up. A Delica, UK Wharncliffe, Spy and some Mules in 8cr13mov and s90v and an old Chicago Cutlery folding fillet knife. When I get around to stropping they should very sharp, indeed.
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sal
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#4

Post by sal »

Interesting. When I was shaving with a straight razor (I was younger with better eyes), I made an untra fine to sharpen my own razors, It worked very well so I decided to produce the 3 x 8 Ultra fine. I'm glad that you found it to work well for you as well.

sal
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#5

Post by Slash »

Had to check the price of 306uf when I saw $90 because I don't remember paying that a few years ago. It's currently $63 on amazon.
I like the mirror polish it puts on the edge. Only thing is it never feels sharp even though I can pop hairs and push cut paper. So, I give edge micro bevel with a more coarse stone.
Haven't got into straight razors yet.
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#6

Post by jackknifeh »

sal wrote:Interesting. When I was shaving with a straight razor (I was younger with better eyes), I made an untra fine to sharpen my own razors, It worked very well so I decided to produce the 3 x 8 Ultra fine. I'm glad that you found it to work well for you as well.

sal
I'm glad you did make the larger UF stone. The 2" wide others are wide enough that no one can say they can't be used but I do prefer a wider stone. I ordered the 3" wide UF yesterday and am looking forward to it. Although I really wanted the wider stone for longer kitchen knives, using it on razors is the final push I needed (wanted) to go ahead and just get it. Now I won't have to "want" it anymore. I'll have to find something else to "want". :) Shouldn't be a problem. :)

I just got a Native 5 fluted titanium knife and I polished the bevels on it up to the 8k Shapton glass. Then this morning I used the UF stone just to see how the bevel looked after an 8k. I'm happy to say the 306UF stone polished the bevels a little more than a Shapton glass 8k stone did. I'm guessing the approximate grit rating is around 12k. I don't guess ceramic stones are measured in "grit" ratings but a 12k water stone is a guess regarding the results I'm seeing on the edge. That is interesting for anyone shopping for stones but not knowing where the UF stone would fit into a grit progression.

Jack
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#7

Post by jackknifeh »

Slash wrote:Had to check the price of 306uf when I saw $90 because I don't remember paying that a few years ago. It's currently $63 on amazon.
I like the mirror polish it puts on the edge. Only thing is it never feels sharp even though I can pop hairs and push cut paper. So, I give edge micro bevel with a more coarse stone.
Haven't got into straight razors yet.
You're right. It isn't that high. So much for my memory. :( But, if anyone is looking into this stone you better get one at $62.39 on amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Ultra-Be ... erco+306uf" target="_blank

Wish I had shopped more but that's life I guess. The one I ordered has already shipped. Plus, I got it from CS and I'd just as soon do business with them because of the great customer service they provide. I would have ordered the one on Amazon if I had seen it but I didn't. I have shopped for the stone quite a bit in the past 2-3 years though and I don't remember the price ever being that low. So if anyone wants one that's a great price.

Jack
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#8

Post by JD Spydo »

Slash wrote:Had to check the price of 306uf when I saw $90 because I don't remember paying that a few years ago. It's currently $63 on amazon.
I like the mirror polish it puts on the edge. Only thing is it never feels sharp even though I can pop hairs and push cut paper. So, I give edge micro bevel with a more coarse stone.
Haven't got into straight razors yet.
When you consider investing in a high grade sharpening stone and barring some unforeseen accident you're probably going to have the stone for the rest of your life. Now I've heard that the gray/medium Spyderco stones have been known to dish out after intense, extreme usage but I've never heard of Spyderco's fine or ultra-fine stones ever going bad at all.

Like I say I just look at purchasing all of my sharpening tools as an investment and if you use knives a lot like I do it's some of the best money I ever spent. As I've said before Spyderco's sharpening tools are just as high quality as their knives are.
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#9

Post by Cliff Stamp »

Note even if the Spyderco medium stones do dish they can easily be flattened with diamond abrasives. I would suspect they could be flattened with silicon carbide abrasives as well.
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#10

Post by sal »

Hi Cliff,

We've learned that trying to shape ceramic stones with diamonds will more often than not ruin the diamond abrasive for future use. When I made my first ultra fine for my strainght razor, I used a diamond hone and while I ended up with a nicely resurfaced ceramic stone, it wiped out the DMT stone. Becomes costly. My first ultra fine, that I made, was a 1" X 8". I cut a 2 X 8 in half lengthwise.

sal
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#11

Post by Cliff Stamp »

Sal,

You might want to have a look at diamond stones which are either brazed on the substrated, or are resin bonded to a solid form. These are used in industry as abrasives commonly used to shape alumina based ceramics, granite and similar materials.

With a lot of what we see as diamond sharpening stones, the bond is poor, the distribution is uneven, and they are often recommended to be used without lubricant. A high friction combined with the previous factors, and even worse with polycrystaline diamonds - well it leads to a very quick destruction of the diamond stone.
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#12

Post by sal »

We do have equipment that we used to shape ceramic stones after they're hard, but they're very expensive, designed to wear, and are not flat, they're wheels. When we make ultra fine stones, they surfaced with a mill and a diamond abrasive. Tedious in machine time, which is refelected in the cost. We find that with some materials, there is a big difference between the performance, and life, we can expect from power abrasives vs hand held speeds. That's why we were cautious to make a CBN stone. We knew it worked well under power, but we needed to test manual sharpening speeds.

sal
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

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Post by Cliff Stamp »

Sal,

That is a critical point often over looked. The force, speed and heat generated in power grinding demand very specific things from an abrasive. In hand grinding these are all scaled down and the abrasive has to be able to cut under far lower forces and speed and doesn't need to be able to deal with high heat. Unfortunately in many sharpening abrasives we often end up with abrasives which are just power abrasives cut into blocks which don't work. The porosity, abrasive density, and even abrasive crystal shape/conditioning have to be adjusted to allow them to grind under much lower forces.
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#14

Post by sal »

It is more challenging to produce these products than might appear. The deeper thought and research necessary to end up with a viable performing product is often not done, combined with the small market for such products addmakes it more of a gamble. We make our special ceramic stones (UF's, slipstones, files, Golden Stones, etc.) more often than not because I want them in the line. If sales were the only criteria, some might not be there.

sal
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#15

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sal wrote:It is more challenging to produce these products than might appear. The deeper thought and research necessary to end up with a viable performing product is often not done, combined with the small market for such products addmakes it more of a gamble. We make our special ceramic stones (UF's, slipstones, files, Golden Stones, etc.) more often than not because I want them in the line. If sales were the only criteria, some might not be there.

sal
Sal, your comment about some of Spyderco's products not being there if sales were the only issue makes me appreciate the company's (your) attitude toward having a great lineup of tools. For the average pocket knife user the UF grit is seldom needed. But when you want a smoother (less toothy) edge it'll do the trick. Add to it's performance the fact you don't need any water/oil or flattening and you've got a great tool that can be used anywhere. The fine grit is a great grit to use last on most pocket knives, maybe even the medium grit. A forum member mailed me the medium stone to try for a couple of weeks and I remember liking it a lot. I haven't bought one because I have that grit range covered with DMT or Shapton glass stones.

A few days ago I was putting together a computer chair. The different parts all came in plastic bags (thin plastic). I started using the bradley folder since it was in my pocket. It was very very sharp finished with the UF stone. It cut the plastic bags easily when I held the bag and did a slicing motion just right. I'm talking about cutting it and I can't feel the plastic. But if I didn't hit the edge of the plastic at the right angle or something that edge didn't want to cut as well. I grabbed my D'fly which had been finished with a coarser stone. Either the Spyderco fine or DMT fine I think. Don't remember. Either way the toothier edge cut through the thin plastic no matter what angle or how I held the plastic or knife. While the task I'm talking about is about as light duty as you can get the condition of the edge made a difference in how easy it was to open the bags. Of course some people would just as soon use their house key. Anyway, for my cutting needs an edge sharpened with the Spyderco fine grit is a more appropriate edge apex than the UF stone. I'm posting this to say thanks for leaving some items in production even if you don't make as much on some of them. Spyderco sharpening tools are so varied in shape that about any need can be satisfied I think. I don't know how many people might need the short file shapes you have. The set of 4 I mean. I have the triangle one and have used it several times when that's the exact tool needed. I haven't had a need for the other shapes but if I get into a job where one of them will work and I don't have anything else I'll get that one or the set. I can see however that not a lot of people would buy them. I could be wrong though.

I'm assuming the 701 profile set was discontinued due to low sales. Again, I could be wrong. But, in 5-10 years there will be a whole new group of young people who will want them. :) Then you can make a bunch more. :)

More on the UF for straight razors. I re-honed all my razors which is a whopping collection of 5, and every one I finished with the UF stone prior to stropping. All 5 razors shave very well. I'm still fairly new to honing razors but I'm getting better. Before the end of the year I'm going to send one to get professionally honed to act as a comparison to mine. There is something strange about the Shapton glass stones I don't understand. For the longest time I just couldn't get a knife edge as sharp using any grit and I have up to 16k. No matter which grit I chose to be the highest (2k for example), I could always get the edge sharper with either the DMT or Spyderco stones, any grit. Now I can get the edge sharper with Shapton glass and I assume I have just gotten used to them. I don't know. Remembering the harder time I had getting knife edges sharper with the Shapton glass stones is what made me try the UF on my razors recently. The result on the razor edge was great as well as surprising. I don't recommend Shapton glass stones to a person just learning to sharpen. At least not the higher grits. I wouldn't recommend the UF stone either to a new sharpening person. Just my opinion but I think you need to have a certain level of ability to get out of the UF stone what the UF stone can give. Brand new sharpening folks I think need to stay away from the higher grits because they will only depress them. That's how it was for me my whole life until the past few years. I always had two stones. Medium Arkansas and fine Arkansas. I could always get a nice sharp edge with the medium. Then I'd want to use the fine grit thinking it would get the knife sharper. I would dull the edge every time. Not understanding what was happening I just quit using the fine grit. Now I believe my ability (low) kept me from getting the performance out of the higher grit. My low ability combined with my low knowledge of what was going on with the process. Getting long winded again.

Thank you for a great line of sharpening products. I appreciate them and I know a lot of others do as well.

Jack
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#16

Post by sal »

I've also learned that more experience helps in appreciating different stones. I'm currently playing with Arkansas stones made by Hall. They own their own quarries and make the stones from ground to final. They're a bit slower than ceramic and require oil, but the edge is nice and the activity theraputic. I've got a soft/black combination and a slip.

sal
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#17

Post by Scroop »

I want an ultra fine in the pocket stone size, I use the fine pocket stone for all my knives. I like the feedback, I feel it, I hear it. I like the control of holding the stone in my right hand and the blade in my left. I would love to try an ultra fine in 1x5.
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#18

Post by Henry - get both »

The UF stones / rods are some the most used in my substantial assortment of abrasives. Touching up a ~zero ground delica on the UF at 10 dps makes it breathtakingly sharp - no way I would touch it with a strop.

I have the Shapton GS 16K and there are times when I like it but most of the time I like the hard clean surface of the UF especially for micro bevels.
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#19

Post by araneae »

I picked up the UF 3x8 at the seconds sale for a song, I think it was well under $10. I have been using it for touch ups, but I have yet to spend much time with it. I will have to do more work with it.
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Re: More about the Spyderco UF stone. Good stuff.

#20

Post by JD Spydo »

Scroop wrote:I want an ultra fine in the pocket stone size, I use the fine pocket stone for all my knives. I like the feedback, I feel it, I hear it. I like the control of holding the stone in my right hand and the blade in my left. I would love to try an ultra fine in 1x5.
I would absolutely love it if they would make another DOUBLESTUFF stone with UF on one side and diamond on the other. That would not only compliment the current fine/medium they already sell but a UF/diamond stone would be a tackle box dream come true :cool:

During my work days I carry/EDC my DOUBLESTUFF stone and there is hardly a day that goes by that I don't use it for something. It's really the perfect size for all kinds of portable sharpening jobs.

It will be interesting to see what else they do with the new CBN stones.
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