Native 5 - Sudden Catastrophic Failure (Locking Mechanism)

[wolfgaze]

I just experienced the most unexpected knife issue. I reached for my Native 5 on my nightstand and opened it - when I went to close it as I normally would do by disengaging the back lock, I immediately heard a weird *click* noise, the lock release lost its resistance and went fully down, and I felt an internal part of the knife dislodge and rattle. This little piece fell into my hand (photo below):

http://imgur.com/hgXoe2I" target="_blank

(sorry for the crappy image quality, cell phone camera + flash)

For the record, I have never hard-used this knife, nor any of my Spyderco's (only been collecting approx 2 years).... 99% of their use is to open packages or to break down boxes for recycling... The most use they get (sadly lol) is in my hand when I'm opening/closing them for fun while relaxing at home. So as you can imagine I was really surprised when this happened just now.

A few questions for you forum goes if you don't mind:

- Has anyone experienced anything like this before with their Native 5 or with similar models using this locking design/mechanism?

- The knife was purchased new in June of 2013 from KnivesShipFree. I don't believe I have my shipping receipt lying around but I have my Paypal Payment Confirmation email and my order confirmation email from KnivesShipFree. Is that an authorized Spyderco Dealer (I was referred to them from this forum as they were the only dealer who had Native 5's in stock during that time period). Does that even matter now that I am nearly 18 months out from the time I purchased the knife?

- What would you more experienced Spyderco owners recommend be my best course of action given these circumstances? Like I said I've only collected Spyderco knives (and any pocket/folding knives) for close to 2 years. Never had a service issue before. What is the proper protocol for addressing an issue like this?

Your help/assistance is appreciated. Thanks in advance....

~Mike

[Invective]

- What would you more experienced Spyderco owners recommend be my best course of action given these circumstances? Like I said I've only collected Spyderco knives (and any pocket/folding knives) for close to 2 years. Never had a service issue before. What is the proper protocol for addressing an issue like this?[/b]

Your help/assistance is appreciated. Thanks in advance....

~Mike

KSF is definitely a good dealer, I have dealt with Derrick many times through KnivesShipFree and have always been completely satisfied with my purchase.

I would recommend sending it in to SFO, they will definitely be able to tell you what happened to your knife and likely replace it free of charge.

[Ignaz]

This is definitely a warranty case. Send it to Spyderco. They should repair it.

I have never seen or experienced the breakage of a Spyderco lockback spring. However I always felt that the Native 5's spring is pretty weak and I even noticed that it loses tension after some time.
Every piece of metal can be bent to a specific degree without losing much of it's tension. But if you bend it further it will become weaker and less stiff from that point. And if it gets overstretched several times it becomes brittle and therefore breaks. I suspect that the problem was caused by a combination of bad heat treatment and the Native's spring design.

[The Deacon]

I've never had a midlock's lock spring break on me, but I've seen a couple cases where it has happened. The ones I saw were 20-30 year old knives and metal fatigue was the most likely culprit. As noted, on a knife as new as your Native 5 this is definitely a warranty issue, so you best course of action would be to return it to Spyderco. AFAIK, Spyderco has never asked for a receipt or any form of "proof of purchase" when a warranty issue is involved. IMHO, returning it to the dealer would be unfair as they sent you the knife you ordered, and it was working properly when you received it.

A midlock's spring is a relatively small metal part that, of necessity, gets flexed every time the knife is opened or closed. Inspecting them for internal flaws would not be cost effective and, although such flaws are few and far between, all it takes is a small one in the area of highest stress to cause failure.

[bh49]

I am sorry to hear about Native5 failure. Send it to Spyderco, they will fix it or replace it.

[captnvegtble]

Sending back to Spyderco will also help them trouble shoot and improve the design if there are issues they find that led to the break.

[yablanowitz]

I've never had that happen on a back lock spring, but I have had several other springs break over the years. It is important that you send it to Spyderco Warranty and Repair so they can examine it. It is probably a fluke, but it is possible that there was a problem with a batch of springs, and only by seeing and testing it will they be able to determine which is the case. Either way, it is a defect in materials (unless you took the knife apart and put it back together with the spring in backwards) and will be covered by the warranty.

For what it is worth, I did have the back spring snap on a Kiwi Slipit that I had reground the blade on. I figured that my modification had voided the warranty, but I sent it in so they could see what happened. They sent me a new one for free.

[The Deacon]

I've never had that happen on a back lock spring, but I have had several other springs break over the years. It is important that you send it to Spyderco Warranty and Repair so they can examine it. It is probably a fluke, but it is possible that there was a problem with a batch of springs, and only by seeing and testing it will they be able to determine which is the case. Either way, it is a defect in materials (unless you took the knife apart and put it back together with the spring in backwards) and will be covered by the warranty.

For what it is worth, I did have the back spring snap on a Kiwi Slipit that I had reground the blade on. I figured that my modification had voided the warranty, but I sent it in so they could see what happened. They sent me a new one for free.

Normally, the same though would have crossed my mind as a possible cause. However, unlike the lock springs on a number of other Spyderco midlocks, it appears that reversing the spring on a Native 5 would be physically impossible.

The photo below is not mine and I neglected to note who posted it originally when I copied it, but it does show clearly that the Native 5's lock spring makes a fairly tight bend of approximately 90º just before it enters the backspacer. I'm no engineer, but I'm inclined to think that's also the point at which the spring flexes when doing its job and, based on the OP's photo, looks to me to be exactly where his broke.

[GoldenSpydie]

Very odd picture, Deacon. My Native 5s (both S110V/CF) do not have that type of spring. It is almost straight and very conventional looking.

:confused:

I'll post a picture later.

[The Deacon]

Very odd picture, Deacon. My Native 5s (both S110V/CF) do not have that type of spring. It is almost straight and very conventional looking.

:confused:

I'll post a picture later.

Interesting. While I have no intention of disassembling either of mine, I just peered into their handles. The older (originally G-10, now Mexican Ebony) S35V one appears to have a spring and backspacer just like those in the photo I posted. The S110V 2013 Spyderco Forum Knife Model appears to have an entirely different setup inside. One that, at least from the outside looking in, appears capable of housing a more conventional looking and almost flat spring, as you describe. No idea why the change was made, but there definitely appears to have been one. Given that the OP's G-10 Native 5 was purchased about 18 months ago, and could have been on the dealer's shelf for a while before that, I'm thinking his probably has the earlier configuration.

EDITED TO ADD: I realize that returning a knife from outside the USA can be problematic, so my earlier advice to return it to Spyderco assumes the OP lives here. On a larger scale, it would make giving appropriate advice easier if folks with problems put down their location, either in their profile or at least in the thread. Doesn't have to be all that specific but there are some things where the most feasible solution to a problem will be different for someone living in the USA, or in the USA and Canada, than for folks living elsewhere.

[ChrisinHove]

EDITED TO ADD: I realize that returning a knife from outside the USA can be problematic, so my earlier advice to return it to Spyderco assumes the OP lives here. On a larger scale, it would make giving appropriate advice easier if folks with problems put down their location, either in their profile or at least in the thread. Doesn't have to be all that specific but there are some things where the most feasible solution to a problem will be different for someone living in the USA, or in the USA and Canada, than for folks living elsewhere.[/quote]


That is a very pertinent point. The best warranty service is irrelevant when I can't access it. One tends to assume that the best warranty only applies to the best product, as the maker has confidence it won't be called upon much, but such reputations are fragile, and often only as good as the last knife. So far so good, though (even if Spyderco can't provide replacement screws for my well used Chicago).

[wolfgaze]

I apologize as it appears this thread double posted last night for some odd reason.

Thanks to everyone who responded/replied, to this thread and the other one. I have sent an request to their Customer Support department through the website. Will update the thread once I get this resolved...

[wolfgaze]

Shipped my Native 5 to Spyderco today...

[sal]

Hi Wolfgaze,

thanx much. I'll let Charlynn know that we need to analyze the spring.

sal

[wolfgaze]

Hi Wolfgaze,

thanx much. I'll let Charlynn know that we need to analyze the spring.

sal

Thanks for the acknowledgement Sal.... The knife should arrive by Wednesday of next week.

[Invective]

That is a very pertinent point. The best warranty service is irrelevant when I can't access it. One tends to assume that the best warranty only applies to the best product, as the maker has confidence it won't be called upon much, but such reputations are fragile, and often only as good as the last knife. So far so good, though (even if Spyderco can't provide replacement screws for my well used Chicago).

Oh hey I dunno if this would help but I've got a Spyderco Cat that I used to practice my modding skills a bit and used two of the washers as spare parts for another knife so it has a lot of blade play and I don't use it anymore. If you want I could ship it off to you so you can see if the screws/parts are interchangeable. I can just ship it disassembled and without the blade so it shouldn't get caught up in customs as well. PM me if this sounds like something you'd like, and if you could help out with shipping costs that would be awesome.

[ManixFan]

Hi GoldenSpydie........I think your lock spring looks probably like the one in the picture below. I think that the original poster had the same issue as me and his spring is just facing with the curved section facing upwards. I was confused by Deacon's picture as well until I read your comment and then Deacon's follow up post which confirmed what I had thought because I don't remember there being any fracture marks on the ends of the spring that fell out of one of my 2013 Forum Native 5's.

Last Edit: Actually after looking at the OP's spring again it appears like there is a bent part on the bottom of the spring and that at the top - even though the curve is facing out of the monitor screen it looks like it was fractured ........so Deacon's second observation about the spring being the older configuration is probably correct. Please ignore any text below that doesn't make sense since this italicized text was my last edit......too tired to edit the rest of my post.......going to bed now :o

(Actually I only have one now after trading one of them and then picking up the S110v CF Native 5 later)

Here is a photo.......you can zoom in by clicking on it and see that the ends are rounded and not fractured metal and the spring is intact as it should be......but just managed to wiggle out of where it was wedged.

So I don't believe that it was a "snapped" spring.......it just seemed like the spring had somehow fallen out of where it was supposed to sit. Since I have never taken a Native 5 apart and it sounds like GoldenSpydie has .......he would probably be better able to describe how it sits inside the handle and how it might have fallen out.

But when I purchased these Forum Natives, I was new to Spyderco knives and back locks in general I thought that I should be able to do the thumb or middle finger flick on these Natives. But for one of them - it was impossible - the one that didn't fail. But the other one seemed a lot looser right from the start and I think that the extra force that I exerted on it through flicking attempts helped work the spring loose. Which it shouldn't have ......even with the flicking. So I was able to flick the blade open on the knife that failed.......until it failed.

But this stiffness isn't common to all Spyderco backlocks since my new (to me) CF Stretch flicks open very smoothly with both thumb and middle finger flicks and there appears to be no issue with any potential failure in the same way that happened to my Native 5.

So if your spring looked like mine, I think that the same thing basically happened to you that happened to me and that your knife was defective right from the start and not through anything that you did. I think that if it was an old user knife I would have just tried to fix it myself but since it was a brand new 2013 Forum knife I sent it back and the Spyderco warranty department sent me out a new one and reimbursed me for my shipping.

Great service and communications with Spyderco on this issue.........I was very pleased with how I was treated. :) :spyder: :spyder: :)

[GoldenSpydie]

Here are a few pictures. The knives shown are the Moonglow N5 and the LWN5, but all of my N5s seem to have this type of spring. It does appear that the spring could come loose without the knife being taken apart, but the tolerances are pretty tight and I would guess that the OP's spring broke, rather than just falling out.

[Ankerson]

I have 2 N5's, Orginal S35VN/G10 and the Forum Knife in S110V.

The S35VN is the old style with the bent spring, the S110V is the newer style with the straight spring.

[wolfgaze]

Thanks to those who posted the internal photos so we can see what's going on in there lol...