I would like to revisit geometry momentarily, if you'd allow me, in part inspired by this quote which I think launched a very reasonable discussion:
chrisp wrote:That does not appear to be a trout; nevertheless, I am impressed at your proactive move to commission a custom from the collaborator. Do Spyderco make their models from as thin blade stock as Phil Wilson? It seems that the South Fork is as popular a fixed blade as any they have made. I enjoy your real-world reports of knives in a saltwater environment.
Thanks!
My Spyderco Phil Wilson came at .7mm above the apex. This is comparable to a Spyderco Para2, or my Busse ASH1. I thought a picture of the ASH1 would be in order here:
I picked an image (from the googlez, and again feel free to search for something that has a unit for scale to your taste) with a 1911 as I thought it'd give people a good sense of scale, and the fact that this Busse is a chopper.
Even by Spyderco standards, this is relatively obtuse geometry reserved for their "tactical" knives, and of course used by Busse on a chopper carrying a "if you can manage to break it, we'll replace it free" warranty.
Going in the opposite direction, Busse (know for their extreme use knives) not terribly long ago released a series of knives in Elmax ground to .3mm above the apex. I put a picture of one below. They didn't release them with some sort of extensive disclaimer, amended warranty, customer one-on-one interviews, or anything of the sort. They put them on sale for roughly 100$ (no sheath), and some on the Spyder forums may be shocked to hear that what followed was not armageddon brought on by hundreds of disgruntled users who attempted to baton through logs, steel chain, and an entire car (all three have happened with regular Busses, the events were celebrated by the company, and oh yeah the knives didn't fail) and were absolutely baffled as to why the little scrapmax couldn't take it.
And even here, in Spyder land, the Phil Wilson custom is comparatively thick ground. The Sage series is run leaner, in the ~.5mm range, as are many of the Seki models or the Gayle Bradley (both of them) for that matter.
So that is my data point of 1 unit. I'm not saying it is a garbage knife, or anything of the sort, but I did regrind it. I also don't think that most Spyderco customers are as unintelligent as some people are implying. Yes, if you hang around the forums you get some amount of sample bias because this is where some people will come to discuss issues, but in general I suspect people don't buy Spyders without having a clue what they are. Why? Because, compared to a number of other brands, they tend to be more expensive. If you look at the current Phil Wilson collab, it has a 425$ MSRP. Certainly you aren't weighing options and land on that knife without having a clue what it is, when there are hundreds of other knives which look good and cost less. It is, like most Spyders, the choice for a discerning customer. So no, I don't think that Spyderco's target audience are drooling idiots who can't figure out that batonning through a frozen fish with a rolling pin isn't a brilliant idea for a knife ground to <.1mm thick above the apex is a bad idea. People who don't know anything about quality cutlery probably couldn't handle it, but as I mentioned before they also probably wouldn't end up buying a Spyderco. Spydercos also, charmingly, come with a little "Edge-U-Cation" printout on every knife, so god forbid someone sees fit to include a warning/disclaimer, it'd be pretty trivial to offer the education to the ELU.
And on a final note/example, how many broken Matriarch and Civilian tips have you seen? I've not seen any. I'm guessing some of the more regular forumites may have seen one or two. How many do you think they've sold over the years? The matriarch I bought my wife came with a little tag attached with a disclaimer saying that the tip was delicate. I suspect the overwhelming majority of such knives remain intact.
So, in summary, yes I think that Spyderco customers are adequately intelligent and the performance benefits are sufficient to justify producing a bird and trout knife with a leaner grind than .7mm above the apex. Just my 2c.
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