So this just happened to my Manix2 :(

[Blerv]

So let me get this straight... They fit Manix knives with springs whose strength rivals that of the springs in my car's suspension, ostensibly for "safety". Then they wrap it all up in a flimsy plastic cage.

It's not "flimsy plastic" but sure isn't unbreakable, few things are. You have a high tension spring pushing a ball bearing into place, the cage just stabilizes and offers something to grip the ball by. The BB is doing 100% of the support duty.

A few people have posted problems with the CBBL cage. As far as I know, at least half of them have admitted to tampering with it just prior to failure. I'm not saying the OP did (I never would assume that) but in normal use lock failures seem to be exceptionally rare.

[JNewell]

So let me get this straight... They fit Manix knives with springs whose strength rivals that of the springs in my car's suspension, ostensibly for "safety". Then they wrap it all up in a flimsy plastic cage.

Yeah, sort of the same idea as a Glock. :rolleyes:

[Knutty]

So let me get this straight... They fit Manix knives with springs whose strength rivals that of the springs in my car's suspension, ostensibly for "safety". Then they wrap it all up in a flimsy plastic cage.

Yeah, sort of the same idea as a Glock. :rolleyes:

No, you have misunderstood me. I am not one of these simple-minded people who equates "plastic" with "junk". I love FRN. I have a degree in chemistry. I know how awesome polymers can be. That's why I specifically used the adjective "flimsy". It could have been a "flimsy metal cage" too.

In any event, I'm guessing that this was either a fluke or somehow induced.

[3rdGenRigger]

I think I read somewhere that this is why all the cages used on the Manix knives are black now instead of clear because they're supposedly less brittle...can't find the thread though now for some reason.

[adancingmonkey]

I think I read somewhere that this is why all the cages used on the Manix knives are black now instead of clear because they're supposedly less brittle...can't find the thread though now for some reason.

Sal had chimed in on a previous thread saying there was no difference in strength between the clear and the black cage.

[shunsui]

I'd love to see an optional metal version of the cage for sale at the Spyderco Store.

[3rdGenRigger]

I think I read somewhere that this is why all the cages used on the Manix knives are black now instead of clear because they're supposedly less brittle...can't find the thread though now for some reason.

Sal had chimed in on a previous thread saying there was no difference in strength between the clear and the black cage.

I'd missed that update...good to know.

[Beard Man]

So,the ball can't stay in lock/unlock position without polymer holder/cage ?

I think the ball WITHOUT cage/polymer holder is more trusty/unfailing design,just my IMHO.

[adancingmonkey]

Well the ball bearing lock on the polliwog doesn't need a cage. Would it not work on the manix as well?

[The Deacon]

Well the ball bearing lock on the polliwog doesn't need a cage. Would it not work on the manix as well?

It might, but it's a trade off. The "plain" ball bearing lock is harder to close under even the best conditions, and can be quite difficult in the worst of them. Try closing you Poliwog one handed with greasy, oily, or bloody hands, or while wearing most gloves.

[Blerv]

that and I'm guessing it's easier to design around being so much smaller.

[Screwdriver]

Disengaged the lock and it felt all wobly.. Looked at it, and then it just fell apart .. There goes one of my favourite EDC's ..

Is it the wood showing through the cage, or is it discolored?

[spyderHS08]

Is it the wood showing through the cage, or is it discolored?

I was wondering the same thing, looks as if it had sat in the sun for some period of time or was exposed to a lot of heat, or something like that.

[David from NC]

See this just proves something I already believed...

Even GOD hates a choil knife!!! :D

Seriously though...EvilD already mentioned it but I would think metal or alloy might make a stronger part. I too am not opposed to polymers (an avowed Endura, Delica, and Glock guy!) but since the Manix is already a heavyweight in the line, I wouldn't think this was AS BIG a deal as it might be in a smaller knife... Obviously this is a "Sal and team" decision and I'm sure they have already looked at it up, down, and sideways (!)

Still...CQI... :spyder:

I personally have no like for it for ME (being a blade with a choil) but in spite of all the talk about the Military and Paramilitary 2 and compression locks-the Manix "feels" like the strongest brute folder Spyderco makes (just my opinion.)

[The Deacon]

See this just proves something I already believed...

Even GOD hates a choil knife!!! :D

Seriously though...EvilD already mentioned it but I would think metal or alloy might make a stronger part.

Just one slight problem. A few days back, when that same suggestion was made in another "ball cage" themed thread either here or on the BF Spyderco sub-forum on BF, that metal would not work as it would not have the flex required to allow the ball to be popped into place. I'm confident that someone will now suggest a multi-piece cage as the solution to that problem, but that would increase cost due to the added complexity, add more bits to get loose or break, and, like a one piece metal cage, replace a self-lubricating part with a source of friction.

OTOH, there are a number of Spyderco models out there using the polymer cages and, if forum postings are any indicator, the instance of failure is actually quite low.

What I do think Spyderco should consider is enlisting a competent "knife mechanic" somewhere in Europe to act as their W&R agent there.

[JNewell]

So let me get this straight... They fit Manix knives with springs whose strength rivals that of the springs in my car's suspension, ostensibly for "safety". Then they wrap it all up in a flimsy plastic cage.

Yeah, sort of the same idea as a Glock. :rolleyes:

No, you have misunderstood me. I am not one of these simple-minded people who equates "plastic" with "junk". I love FRN. I have a degree in chemistry. I know how awesome polymers can be. That's why I specifically used the adjective "flimsy". It could have been a "flimsy metal cage" too.

In any event, I'm guessing that this was either a fluke or somehow induced.

I think your guess that this is either induced or a fluke is right. The reports of broken cages over the years have been astronomically low - which is a pretty good indication that they aren't flimsy.

[xceptnl]

I agree with many of the above given reasons on previous posts (from both this thread and many older ones). The videos that many people have posted on Youtube of Manix 2 models being abuse tested and abused have revealed very few cage destruction catastrophes. Furthermore, the science behind the uncaged Ball-bearing lock, like those found on the Dodo, Phoenix, and Poliwog are obviously stronger as the contact between the BB and the frame is direct. However, the reality of this lock design suffers from a fatal flaw (IMHO), they are tricky enough to disengage under the best conditions. I sold my Dodo, passed on buying a Phoenix and have debated back and forth on Dallara models for years. All of this because the lock never was easy for me to disengage.

The CBBL has been one of my favorite and top 3 preferred lock designs of all my Spydies. I find it easier to unlock than some frame-lock designs. An improved design of the caged ball bearing with a MIM or machined perimeter cage and a ceramic ball would certainly peak my interest, but I wouldn't pay the likely premium it would entail.

[chuck_roxas45]

I think your guess that this is either induced or a fluke is right. The reports of broken cages over the years have been astronomically low - which is a pretty good indication that they aren't flimsy.

I'd propose calling it a "low failure rate" rather than calling it a fluke.

[Evil D]

Now that I think more into it, I also wonder about a metal cage creating more friction and/or wearing on the ball itself. It would need to be a soft metal, at least softer than the ball, and I wonder if then it would also be flexible enough to pop the ball into?

[The Deacon]

Now that I think more into it, I also wonder about a metal cage creating more friction and/or wearing on the ball itself. It would need to be a soft metal, at least softer than the ball, and I wonder if then it would also be flexible enough to pop the ball into?

I suspect that as well, David.

FWIW, this is Sal's post on the subject of metal cages that I mentioned in my earlier post, and a link to the thread where it was posted. He says "SS or Ti ball", but it's obvious from the context that he meant "SS or Ti cage"...

Hey HLF,

There is always the possibility that Lance is correct. The black cage turns a tighter circle for reasons called magic. Perhaps the pigment does make a difference? Keep us posted.

A SS orTi ball would not have the "give" to be able to snap the ball into the pocket. But I never say never. As we refine and evolve, who knows what our design / engineering team will come up with in the future. Generally if it works better, we eventually make the change, whatever that may be.

The Stretch is an example. The small changes we're making will be expensive and require a run of slab models to test the concept (tooling needed) and mods to the FRN tooling, but we believe it will produce a better product in the long run.

sal

...as it was an obvious reply to this post on the first page of that thread:

Better yet they change the cage to SS or TI...