Proposal: Spyderco Midtechs

[Blerv]

I know a number of people try to compare the Golden models to other customs, semi-customs/midtechs, and whatever else. Clearly it's a comparison that is unfair from the get-go. The higher price model is typically built on a lower volume scale with far more time put into the prep and finish. The production knife is typically built on a higher volume scale with less time for those fine touches that people generally scrutinize under macro photography.

Proposal: Would it be possible for Spyderco to offer some of their Golden Colorado models on a very low production scale but to a higher almost custom level of finish? A run of 10-50 knives separated from the batch.

There are some details that cant be "fixed" like changing locks, pivots, or using some odd unobtanium steel. However, if someone wanted to pay $350-450 for a Para2 (for example) I would think extra finishing hours could be put into it, a stonewashed or mirror polished blade, some type of lanyard, hand sharpening, and a certificate of authenticity. Little touches like etching the liner with the builder's name and numbering the knife (1 of 50, etc) as well. Maybe even a personal RC check and numbering on the cert.

I don't think this would make a standard model any less a good value. In fact, they would be a far better one. However, it would give some response to when someone complains about F&F or tries to compare the knife to something that isn't reasonable. I still think people will still compare apples to oranges but this way you can give them the chance to hand pick an apple out of the bunch (for a premium).

Thoughts?

[Ankerson]

You mean like a Chris Reeve kinda midtech?

[Laethageal]

At that point it wouldn't be easy for the folks to simply order a customization of their Para 2 to a custom maker?

Plus, that would be a lot of trouble for Spyderco to start customizing knife as demands vary so greatly.

My 2 cents...

[bearfacedkiller]

I would say that a couple of the models coming from taichung are approaching that point and challenging some midtechs. The Rubicon and Slyz Bowie very well may be on that level but I haven't actually handled either of them. Other than that I just can't spend that much on a knife but I know there are many who do.

[SpyderNut]

Sounds like a good idea, Blake. I'm kind of surprised this hasn't been mentioned before. Seems like it could be feasible--especially if done on a smaller scale (at least initially). Would love to hear Sal or Eric chime in on this too. I know many folks here (myself included) would spring for a mid-tech Golden-made Spyderco.

[Ankerson]

At that point it wouldn't be easy for the folks to simply order a customization of their Para 2 to a custom maker?

Plus, that would be a lot of trouble for Spyderco to start customizing knife as demands vary so greatly.

My 2 cents...

I think they could maybe do it with the Ti Models if they thought it would be profitable maybe in the future.

Get things up to around CRK tolerances, staying with like 2 or 3 models at the most.

Would kick things up into that $400 street price range.

[Laethageal]

Oh well, if it ever works out I'll be happy for the lucky who can afford them.

[Ankerson]

Oh well, if it ever works out I'll be happy for the lucky who can afford them.

Would be in that Midtech price range, higher the tolerances etc the higher the price range is going to be, would fit right in with the other midtechs.

There are a lot of them out there, and they sell so who knows.

[Laethageal]

Not implying it wouldn't work. In terms of sale, I guess there would be buyers. I was refering about how Spyderco would handle that part, as I can't tell if they have the inclinason/time while still maintaining an ok margin of profit on those.

Now as I said, if it work out, those would be great pieces to have and would be happy for the owners.

On the other hand, no way I'd buy that amount of money on a knife unless I win lottery :P

[Ankerson]

Not implying it wouldn't work. In terms of sale, I guess there would be buyers. I was refering about how Spyderco would handle that part, as I can't tell if they have the inclinason/time while still maintaining an ok margin of profit on those.

Now as I said, if it work out, those would be great pieces to have and would be happy for the owners.

On the other hand, no way I'd buy that amount of money on a knife unless I win lottery :P

Other companies have made it work so I am not sure why Spyderco couldn't make it happen if they chose to go in that direction.

But yeah that price range is what it is.

[Blerv]

I still think knives like the Sebenza are going to have inherent strengths (and weaknesses). Similar to if you asked Chris to crank up variety and production while reducing msrp.

What I think you could do is build a small amount for the notoriety of offering the service. Be it 10 knives or 50, someone will pay for a factory version that isn't $110. It's more reasonable for asking for philosophy shift and less off-putting for people who like the current model.

[Ankerson]

I still think knives like the Sebenza are going to have inherent strengths (and weaknesses). Similar to if you asked Chris to crank up variety and production while reducing msrp.

What I think you could do is build a small amount for the notoriety of offering the service. Be it 10 knives or 50, someone will pay for a factory version that isn't $110. It's more reasonable for asking for philosophy shift and less off-putting for people who like the current model.

I was thinking more along the lines of introducing 2 or 3 new models, Ti models with very high tolerance levels and F&F etc.

So they would have a separate line of Midtechs. :)

[tvenuto]

If you define "midtech" to mean:
1. A knife designed by a successful knife designer
2. Made partially by machine
3. Made partially by people in the direct employ of said designer
4. Under the supervision of said designer

Then I would say any Eric/Sal designed knife made at the Golden facility counts as a midtech already. The only real additional criteria I've ever seen when referring to "midtechs" is that all of them seem to have been available as customs previously (although I don't see how that has any affect on the quality of the midtech, more just adds to its mystique). Maybe I'm wrong about what constitutes a midtech, but, holding my sage 3 at the moment, I don't see how a midtech version of this knife would be any different.

[yablanowitz]

I think you're just going to have to wait until that hidden orchard of Skilled Cutler trees produces another crop. That probably won't happen until the factory expansion is complete anyway, so Sal should have a place to put them when he goes out and picks a few bushels of them to do all this extra finish work. Heck, maybe he'll be able to pick enough skilled and trained labor off those trees to put in a Custom Shop without giving up R & D on new designs.

It seems a shame that their current business model is working so poorly that everyone knows what would work better for them.

[Ankerson]

I think you're just going to have to wait until that hidden orchard of Skilled Cutler trees produces another crop. That probably won't happen until the factory expansion is complete anyway, so Sal should have a place to put them when he goes out and picks a few bushels of them to do all this extra finish work. Heck, maybe he'll be able to pick enough skilled and trained labor off those trees to put in a Custom Shop without giving up R & D on new designs.

It seems a shame that their current business model is working so poorly that everyone knows what would work better for them.

It's more of an addition to rather than taking the place of.

[Blerv]

Yea it's a game of definitions really. I just threw in "mid tech" as an additional descriptor. Clearly they don't need to out-source CNC work and I wouldn't expect Sal and Eric to assemble each knife.

If the Ti models would allow a different production model than currently exists (ie: hours of extra F&F and some perks) then I think it would make sense. If they were subject to the same process as the normal models the extra costs would be in materials and difficulty to execute.

I don't think it would be unreasonable to sift off a handful of knives from the batch and have a worker devote more time to them with a few extra touches. You change the SKU, raise the MSRP to fund the project, and now your company has another exclusive model. It's a skunkworks project really rather than one where you build 500 of them and 450 sit on the shelf for years.

The Cobra R and Integra Type R didn't impact sales for the Cobra and Integra GSR one bit. They just offered a few people the chance for something funky for a bit more money or with less creature comforts. They were never forced on the mass market as the new status quo making the normal versions any less special.

Note: It's probably a redundant one but I want to make it clear I don't want to tell anyone how to run their business. This is in response to the "custom shop" thread that pops up annually or someone trying to compare a Para2 to ____ .

[RamZar]

Taichung ≈ MidTech

[Ankerson]

Yea it's a game of definitions really. I just threw in "mid tech" as an additional descriptor. Clearly they don't need to out-source CNC work and I wouldn't expect Sal and Eric to assemble each knife.

If the Ti models would allow a different production model than currently exists (ie: hours of extra F&F and some perks) then I think it would make sense. If they were subject to the same process as the normal models the extra costs would be in materials and difficulty to execute.

I don't think it would be unreasonable to sift off a handful of knives from the batch and have a worker devote more time to them with a few extra touches. You change the SKU, raise the MSRP to fund the project, and now your company has another exclusive model. It's a skunkworks project really rather than one where you build 500 of them and 450 sit on the shelf for years.

The Cobra R and Integra Type R didn't impact sales for the Cobra and Integra GSR one bit. They just offered a few people the chance for something funky for a bit more money or with less creature comforts. They were never forced on the mass market as the new status quo making the normal versions any less special.

Note: It's probably a redundant one but I want to make it clear I don't want to tell anyone how to run their business. This is in response to the "custom shop" thread that pops up annually or someone trying to compare a Para2 to ____ .

Something more like it would be interesting to see this if it's possible frame of mind correct? :)

[Ankerson]

Taichung ≈ MidTech

You make a good point, the level of manufacturing quality is extremely high from the models that I have seen. :cool:

[Blerv]

Something more like it would be interesting to see this if it's possible frame of mind correct? :)

If Spyderco doesn't think the idea in general is silly and wants to make some amazing titanium knives don't think I'm going to hold them back (even if I could). :p I thought I recalled Sal saying they had an integral comp lock PM2 in the works. How hard would it be to number 10 of those and pay for a little more production time?

The problem with the "custom shop" mindset is that variety makes for expensive production; you really need a new department for that. The problem with aftermarket modding is a total lack of manufacturer support. I know there are people who want a Spyderco that will pay for an extra dusting of fit and finish. I'm more a pragmatist and would almost always go with the standard model.

Taichung is amazing. They could do it too. I write insurance policies for a living...if someone said, "I'll pay you for 5 more hours of labor on this one" my letterhead would be more perfect and the stamps would be lined-up better on the envelope. :p