MT Project (and thoughts on MT19)

[rodloos]

The K390 and S110V Mules were anomalies in how quickly they sold. Most of the other Mules have hung around for a while. The Cobalt Special seemed like it was never going to sell through the run. While people may not have seemed especially pumped about the PSF27 Mule, I don't see it as being a particularly worse seller than other runs. It may take a while to sell out, but it'll get there in time.

And yet the Cobalt Special seems to be the Mule I reach for more often than any of my others :). I'm not sure why, since I do have the K390 and S110V Mules also. But I've never been disappointed with the performance of the Cobalt Special either.

I'll admit I'm not very good at evaluating the different steels and giving feedback - I have so many Spyderco's it takes me awhile to get around to using them all :). And probably over 90% of my use involves whittling and making shavings for fire starting, mostly pine, oak and pecan. I really enjoy spending an afternoon building a fire and whittling, using one knife and then another playing with them. I guess I need to get around to putting some scales on my PSF27 Mule and trying it out too!

[TomAiello]

My PSF 27 mule has actually been very impressive. I'd totally be into a sprint of something like a Manix 2 XL or Military in this steel.

I see they're still for sale from Spyderco. I wonder if I'd be allowed to buy another one at this point (I bought 2 on the release day)?

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

I've not used mine much, but I do like the steel a lot. I'd like to see it on a folder. Something small...maybe a MW sprint. Micarta scales....be a killer combo.

Welome to the forum.

[jabba359]

I'll admit I'm not very good at evaluating the different steels and giving feedback - I have so many Spyderco's it takes me awhile to get around to using them all :).

Same goes for me. I don't have enough experience, nor do I cut enough material, to draw any scientifically rigorous conclusions or offer any meaningful feedback on the different steels. Besides that, I typically do most of my cutting with folders that I'm able to carry on me, whereas the fixed blades sit at home most of the time. So, even though I pick up every new Mule, it's more because I enjoy making handles for them than it is for steel testing purposes.

[phillipsted]

I had a conversation with Gayle Bradley at last year's Blade Show - and he is a huge fan of PSF27. Several of his recent custom fixed blades are made from this steel, including one of my favorites, the Packer. The thing I remember from that conversation was "balance". He thought that the steel his a nice sweet spot balancing toughness, edge retention, workability and stain resistance.

I'm glad Sal is investigating PSF27 - it might be a great addition to the lineup for mid-range knives along side VP-10. Not every steel needs to be super to be great. :cool:

TedP

[Bodog]

Lol, well, a couple of days after posting some thoughts about having used PSF27 for what, two months or so, I decided to be a little merciless on my knife. I needed to check inside a car's multiple compartments for stuff that shouldn't be there. At first I was using a more proper tool for the job and decided to say screw it, let's try the knife. So I wedged the blade into various nooks and crannies, prying off covers and whatnot inside the car. I finally got some edge damage. Now, I torqued the knife probably 15 times, so I think it still did well. Before and after this I cut open probably 60 or so large boxes. A lot of these boxes I have to cut through the side rather than the flaps due to them being stacked. My knife was pretty filthy and covered with random adhesives and stuff. I cleaned it up and ran it on my 3k diapaste strop maybe 20 times per side. Here's what it looks like after a tough day and maybe 15 minutes of TLC.

Now, I can't say other blades would have definitely broken, I didn't blatantly abuse it and I didn't measure the torque I applied. But I can say that doing the same stuff with other blades, they've chipped, rolled significantly, and bent the tips. Yes, I've seen 154CM blades treated by another quality manufacturer break in half under similar circumstances. I've seen tips made of other random steels break off. The mule knives have pretty thin tips and as you can see, it didn't break off, just minor edge detention that i bet a steeling would fix. So I'm happy.

[Bodog]

Gratuitous dog photo!

[Bodog]

Not outstanding sharpness, but not bad after a rough day and a quick stropping job

[Bodog]

And after an hour's worth of stropping from 3k to 14k grit. No stones, no steeling. That large deformation in the edge near the tip turned into a very tiny chip and the long deformation slightly behind that is gone. There were more deformations closer to the heel that weren't shown in the first pics. Those are now invisible to my naked 20/15 eyes.

[Bodog]

And easily face shaving sharp, except that tiny chip...

[Bodog]

Well, I spent pretty much an entire Sunday reprofiling my blade down to about 9 degrees per side just to see how low the knife can go. One pallet strap caused fairly significant chipping along about 1/2 inch of the blade. It wasn't a tough strap, just regular plastic. So yeah, 18 degrees inclusive is definitely too low. Gonna raise it to about 25 inclusive for a relief bevel.

I know that 30 degrees inclusive is very good. I'm kind of pissed that it took so long to reprofile. I need diamond stones.

[Bodog]

[Fancier]

Thanks for continuing to update your post! I've been happy with the MT19 as a cardboard box reducer as well.
I appreciate your further evaluation through harder use!

[Surfingringo]

Way to go Bodog! Keep it up. These are my favorite kinds of "mule" threads. I love looking at the handle work some of the guys do too, but this is the kind of stuff that really interests me about these knives. We should create a new thread with each mule release that is dedicated purely to discussing the use and testing of the steel and results, observations and impressions!

[sal]

Thanx much for the continued input.

sal

[Bodog]

I forgot to mention that the area that I cut the pallet strap with also happened to be the same area I was prying and twisting with several days ago. Now I'm wondering if the reason it chipped was because the steel had been stressed too much by the twisting. Do I want to spend time re-sharpening the knife at 18 degrees until the stressed steel is gone or give a relief bevel which may also work? I don't know. I think I will hold off sharpening until cut some more pallet straps and cardboard tomorrow with sections I know didn't get stressed and see how they hold up. I'll be sure to post my unscientific, but hopefully helpful, results.

And I definitely agree with posting more of these threads, I thoroughly enjoy them, too.

[762cal]

I was ready to buy MT19 but i remembered the Gayle Bradley fixed blade collab would be made from the same steel too. So i didn't bought the MT. Your thread makes me reconsider to grab one.

While many might turned down by "d2 variant".... I am liking d2 so much as a edc/user.. I am thinking of psf27 steel must have some similar properties like the cpm cruwear?

[farnorthdan]

[Bodog]

While many might turned down by "d2 variant".... I am liking d2 so much as a edc/user.. I am thinking of psf27 steel must have some similar properties like the cpm cruwear?

I can't speak about cruwear. Wish I could. I'd like to stack psf27 against the other D2 variants like xhp and cpm d2 just to know for sure which one stands up the best. I'd also like to see pd1 against cruwear against z wear. 4V and Vanadis 4E, too. 20CV vs 204p vs m390. Not just wear resistance, but all aspects of the steel from corrosion resistance to blade toughness to edge retention to ease of sharpening. Kind of a blade steel tournament. Take all the ones in the same "weight class" and then start testing the winners of each class against the other "weight classes" to actually evaluate real world utility. Charts and graphs and hearsay and chemical compositions only go so far for the average layman. Real world tests for real world people. That'd be awesome to see and the closest thing out there is the mule team blades like 52100 vs super blue or xhp vs psf27 or K390 vs s110v. I'd love it if someone could take them and document their real usage and comparisons.

[The Mastiff]

Welcome to Spyderco company forum Bodog. Excellent thread and the pictures illustrate your points well. The Mule team program has been a really exceptional program for a company to run. Considering they could use the time and production capacity to make knives with higher return for the effort I've always felt like thanking Sal and the Spyderco team for running.

It's not often I thank companies for taking my money during a sale but Spyderco is a unique company. In more than just the Mule team project over the years it's apparent there are some that do have a genuine passion for what they do.

Some of the steels have surprised me during the course of the Mule team knives. Some have performed better than I expected, some surprised me as not being all they were supposed to be by reputation. Not that many mind you, but some. All in all it's been great and I can't think of one steel I have disliked though there are a few I like more than others.

I hope to continue being able to get every one that comes out. There isn't a single one I haven't learned something from.

Joe