LC200-n: What we know and what it means

[Surfingringo]

I can say this for sure...for me, pe lc200n is a perfectly capable edc steel where as pe h1 just does not have good enough edge retention for me to use it in that capacity.

What do you cut with your PE H-1?

Mostly fish. Check my Tusk review and you can see where I compared h1 to lc200 and s30v. On both fish and rope. H1 got stomped on pretty hard. I can see being happy with pe H1 for certain uses...just not mine. Having said that, I am a huge fan of serrated h1.

[ManixFan]

Why a mule when there's a great folder out already?

Why a mule? Why not? The Tusk is a niche knife that is a waste of money for non boaters. Why would most users want a marlinspike in an expensive knife that they are paying additional for yet have no use for? Wheras there would be quite a few takers who would be quite happy with a small fixed blade with a LC200 corrosion resistant blade. I would rather see one of these than most small folders in the same steel.......these can always trickle out when more people have had the opportunity to try it in a mule. Most people will never be buying a Tusk....but quite a few would pick up a mule.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I wanted to open up a dialogue about this steel but first a disclaimer. When I say "what we know" I am referring only to my observations with the Tusk so let's take that with a collective grain of salt. Hopefully some other Tusk owners are using this steel and will offer up some results soon to confirm (or refute) my findings.

Anyway, if I am to be trusted, here's a few things we know about lc200-n.

1. It is extremely corrosion resistant. Don't know if it will rust but I couldn't make it happen.
2. It has significantly better edge retention than plain edge H1.
3. Unlike H1 it can be used with a liner or frame lock.
4. Unlike H1 it can be used outside of Japan.
5. It is vastly more resistant to scratching that H1.

So what does all this mean? I believe it could have many implications for those of us who like the Salt knives. I believe we now have an alternative to H1 in a fully rust proof knife...an alternative with some serious performance improvements. I think it opens up a plethora of new design possibilities too. With H1 we were relegated to Lockbacks made in Japan. With Lc200-n, the design horizon seems to be wide open. You want a Military Salt? I believe that is now a possibility. I have no idea where spyderco will go with this steel but I believe it opens up a ton of interesting opportunities. Thoughts?

SURFGRINGO: I agree with all of your statements and I like them. Thank you, man, for the cool pictures and your reviews of this new steel and also the H1 knives. :)

I want to learn to design knives and help come up with some good designs for LC200 steel.

[AJBest]

Thanks for your thoughts/testing on this steel SurfG. I am definitely interested, primarily folders though. It would be sweet to have a ti framelock salt if that is possible!!

[Surfingringo]

Thanks for your thoughts/testing on this steel SurfG. I am definitely interested, primarily folders though. It would be sweet to have a ti framelock salt if that is possible!!

It would indeed be sweet aj. I would certainly buy one but the truth is I probably wouldn't use it much. For me when a knife becomes too expensive to comfortably use for its intended purpose it can almost be considered a design flaw. I'm not even taking my Tusk out on the kayak anymore but when I was I was always super nervous using it. I have lost two different salts to the ocean and as sick as that made me feel I hate to think what it would be like watching my $200+ Tusk sinking to the bottom of the ocean. . I love the design and materials of the Tusk and carry it regularly as an edc but for actual boat and ocean use I would favor something with a more "economical" design. I'll take whatever I can get though! :D

[bearfacedkiller]

You wouldn't have to worry as much about losing a Native5 LW Salt.:D

[senorsquare]

You wouldn't have to worry as much about losing a Native5 LW Salt.:D

I like the way you're thinking there...

[senorsquare]

It would indeed be sweet aj. I would certainly buy one but the truth is I probably wouldn't use it much. For me when a knife becomes too expensive to comfortably use for its intended purpose it can almost be considered a design flaw. I'm not even taking my Tusk out on the kayak anymore but when I was I was always super nervous using it. I have lost two different salts to the ocean and as sick as that made me feel I hate to think what it would be like watching my $200+ Tusk sinking to the bottom of the ocean. . I love the design and materials of the Tusk and carry it regularly as an edc but for actual boat and ocean use I would favor something with a more "economical" design. I'll take whatever I can get though! :D

I bet the tusk would look cute with a brightly colored floaty thing attatched to it. :D

[AJBest]

Thanks for your thoughts/testing on this steel SurfG. I am definitely interested, primarily folders though. It would be sweet to have a ti framelock salt if that is possible!!

It would indeed be sweet aj. I would certainly buy one but the truth is I probably wouldn't use it much. For me when a knife becomes too expensive to comfortably use for its intended purpose it can almost be considered a design flaw. I'm not even taking my Tusk out on the kayak anymore but when I was I was always super nervous using it. I have lost two different salts to the ocean and as sick as that made me feel I hate to think what it would be like watching my $200+ Tusk sinking to the bottom of the ocean. . I love the design and materials of the Tusk and carry it regularly as an edc but for actual boat and ocean use I would favor something with a more "economical" design. I'll take whatever I can get though! :D

Yeah, I was thinking of something like a sage 2 lc200 salt but I would not take that on the kayak or out surfing either unless I had it attached to my pocket with shock cord. I would be more likely to beat up an frn knife as well but it would be awesome to have lots of options! I like the potential options!

[Zenith]

Mostly fish. Check my Tusk review and you can see where I compared h1 to lc200 and s30v. On both fish and rope. H1 got stomped on pretty hard. I can see being happy with pe H1 for certain uses...just not mine. Having said that, I am a huge fan of serrated h1.

That is quite interesting. How do you sharpen your PE H-1 and at what angle? I have been experimenting with H-1 a lot the past few weeks and would be interesting to shoot some ideas back and forth.

Found your tusk review, will read it a tomorrow, off to bed. Stay safe.

[RadioactiveSpyder]

How bout a LW Manix 2 Salt with this steel? That'd give a bit more blade for fishing use and the lock is easier to operate one-handed than a back lock... Oops, sorry, I see this was brought up one page 1! Must be a good idea

[Surfingringo]

Mostly fish. Check my Tusk review and you can see where I compared h1 to lc200 and s30v. On both fish and rope. H1 got stomped on pretty hard. I can see being happy with pe H1 for certain uses...just not mine. Having said that, I am a huge fan of serrated h1.

That is quite interesting. How do you sharpen your PE H-1 and at what angle? I have been experimenting with H-1 a lot the past few weeks and would be interesting to shoot some ideas back and forth.

Found your tusk review, will read it a tomorrow, off to bed. Stay safe.

Hey zenith, I sharpen all my knives at 30 degrees with a 40 microbevel. I hope I'm not giving the impression that I think h1 is bad steel. On the contrary, it is one of my all time favorites. I just don't favor it in pe. Some folks use it with great success and I think a lot of that depends on what (and how) you are cutting. For wood and slicing veggies it can work just fine. For cutting hard and abrasive material under force, not so much. You are absolutely correct that it is quite tough and not prone to chipping. I just find that it rolls much too easily and when making hard cuts through hard and abrasive material (rope, fish skin, cartilage and bone) it deforms almost instantly to the point of being pretty much unusable. Again though, for lighter cuts on softer materials it can work just fine. Horses for courses.

[dogrunner]

Why a mule when there's a great folder out already?

Why a mule? Why not? The Tusk is a niche knife that is a waste of money for non boaters. Why would most users want a marlinspike in an expensive knife that they are paying additional for yet have no use for? Wheras there would be quite a few takers who would be quite happy with a small fixed blade with a LC200 corrosion resistant blade. I would rather see one of these than most small folders in the same steel.......these can always trickle out when more people have had the opportunity to try it in a mule. Most people will never be buying a Tusk....but quite a few would pick up a mule.

I like the mule platform but I would much rather have a delica or endura in this steel. Just much more convenient to carry. As far as the marlinspike - yes it is a specialized tool and not useful for many, but it IS useful for more than boaters. I use one a lot for general rope work - untying knots, etc, just around the dog yard and when working with the sled dogs.

[Cliff Stamp]

This steel has been around a long time : http://www.progressivealloy.com/pdf/cronidur30.pdf" target="_blank . Before getting too excited comparing it vs H1, it might be worthwhile to just look at AEB-L and 14C28N vs H1 as they have the same type of toughness/strength/wear resistance but reduced corrosion resistance. However when properly hardened they still have very high corrosion resistance :

https://youtu.be/Ujlx1JOxuPE" target="_blank


and

https://youtu.be/zhsqDFnxbRI" target="_blank

Both of those will show the same type of improved apex stability and edge strength over H1 and a higher fine edge holding ability (shaving and similar) than S30V.

[Zenith]

Hey zenith, I sharpen all my knives at 30 degrees with a 40 microbevel. I hope I'm not giving the impression that I think h1 is bad steel. On the contrary, it is one of my all time favorites. I just don't favor it in pe. Some folks use it with great success and I think a lot of that depends on what (and how) you are cutting. For wood and slicing veggies it can work just fine. For cutting hard and abrasive material under force, not so much. You are absolutely correct that it is quite tough and not prone to chipping. I just find that it rolls much too easily and when making hard cuts through hard and abrasive material (rope, fish skin, cartilage and bone) it deforms almost instantly to the point of being pretty much unusable. Again though, for lighter cuts on softer materials it can work just fine. Horses for courses.

O no, I know you are an H-1 fan and hold it in high regards.

I am going to run some tests on my PE salt 1 when I am back home and hopefully get it on video. Maybe split a chicken etc. I want to see the damage to the edge.

[Surfingringo]

One thing I forgot that is another important factor...

We still don't know much about how this steel grinds. Could lc200n make it possible to see the first ffg Salt? I have no idea, but it's a question worth asking.

[bearfacedkiller]

The idea of an ffg salt knife is very interesting. I really hope so.

[Surfingringo]

The idea of an ffg salt knife is very interesting. I really hope so.

Look at the time stamps on our two ffg posts...mine here and yours in the "salt" thread. Great minds think alike?? :rolleyes: :D

[bearfacedkiller]

I know we haven't even seen the native5 LW in the wild yet but the idea of a yellow frn plain edge full flat ground Native5 LW in LC200N has been really stuck in my head and I am gonna keep bringing it up until either it happens or we get told it cannot happen.

It does not have any liners but it does have some sort of threaded barrels for the clip to screw into. I know that the current platforms used for salt knives were chosen because they had no liners and required minimal steel parts. I'm not sure if it would be feasable to make those barrels from lc200n or maybe titanium like the salt clips. I think my idea is feasible but only time (and Sal) will tell.

[thombrogan]

Before getting too excited comparing it vs H1, it might be worthwhile to just look at AEB-L and 14C28N vs H1 as they have the same type of toughness/strength/wear resistance but reduced corrosion resistance.

14C28N was introduced to the mainstream of knife worshippers by another cutlery company a few years ago and AEB-L isn't the newest steel from Bohler-Uddeholm.

The alloy used in LC200-N might not be new, but the name is new. For instance, if you want to see people clamor over a high-performance alloy such as SAE 1084, it should be converted from base 10 to octal or hex. So that'd be "2074" which looks larger or "43C" which looks sexy.