Spyderco/Farid K2

[chuck_roxas45]

Haha, so PM doesn't count manixfan? Now that is a joke.

[ManixFan]

Haha, so PM doesn't count manixfan? Now that is a joke.

Nope.....a PM is "Private" ......if you want to refer to it publically then it defeats the purpose of the intent in sending communications as a PM. But if you wish, I have no objection to you posting my PM publically in its entirety. :eek: :)

There was zero malice intended in that PM and I was just trying to be helpful. I'm truly sorry if you didn't see it that way :o .

But I hope you will choose to respond by continuing with the insightful and funny posts that I've appreciated from you in the past (also stated in the PM).

Peace out Fry, .....oooops I mean Elvis, .....oooops I mean Chuck...... :D

[ManixFan]

My 400th post! :spyder: :D :D :D :spyder:

[ManixFan]

Sal's custom K2 and the 10v production version, this custom K2 is the very first generation which means it has alot more curve on top of the blade, the profile of the blade right now is the same as the REX K2 which has alot less curve on the top.

That is pretty cool! It's like a K2 Mehr.....and a mini-Mehr. Doctor Evil would approve! :D

What are the different blade sizes between the custom and the production? As well as the overall open & closed length? Do you think that the smaller version will ever end up as production?

Also, I am curious and perhaps you might be able to answer this question since you are open to using lesser known alloys in knifemaking. But is there any reason why people aren't using 9v steel for blades?

It looks like it has a lot better edge retention than 3v yet is a lot tougher than 10v. Is there a reason that it isn't being used in knives? It seems to me like a very tough steel with still very great edge retention would be desirable in knife making but I haven't seen it used in any knives at all.......only the characteristics from the CPM data sheets.

Perhaps (likely) I am missing something in not understanding why we don't see this steel in knives? :confused:

[Strong-Dog]

Has anyone besides the the testers gotten their K2 yet? Care to share some pics in the wild?

Also, I'm by no means a knife tester, but from an average user's (me) perspective, I care much more about the beginning part of the sharpness curve as someone previously mentioned Cliff favored in testing as well? I couldn't care less if the blade can keeping cutting cardboard forever if after 500 cuts it becomes what I consider too dull to do other tasks effectively.

[jabba359]

Has anyone besides the the testers gotten their K2 yet? Care to share some pics in the wild?

Also, I'm by no means a knife tester, but from an average user's (me) perspective, I care much more about the beginning part of the sharpness curve as someone previously mentioned Cliff favored in testing as well? I couldn't care less if the blade can keeping cutting cardboard forever if after 500 cuts it becomes what I consider too dull to do other tasks effectively.

Except this knife was well beyond 500 cuts and still plenty sharp to do other tasks effectively. I'm not saying you're wrong by wanting to know just the beginning part of the sharpness curve, as you prefer only the maximum sharpness possible. I do believe you are wrong, however, in saying you have "an average user's perspective." The average user of knives tends to maintain their knife in a sharp to moderately dull state, and nowhere near the maximum sharpness level you are seeking to obtain, at least judging by the people I tend to meet who carry knives. I'd wager that the vast majority of people (which would tend to skew towards the average) would be perfectly served by a knife that can cut this much and still slice phonebook paper. Again, not saying you're wrong in being interested in only the top percentage of retained sharpness, but I think you're probably an above average knife user rather than just "average". :)

After 5500 Ft of cardboard...

...

And it would still slice Phone Book Paper after.... Not easy, but it would do it....

[Strong-Dog]

Has anyone besides the the testers gotten their K2 yet? Care to share some pics in the wild?

Also, I'm by no means a knife tester, but from an average user's (me) perspective, I care much more about the beginning part of the sharpness curve as someone previously mentioned Cliff favored in testing as well? I couldn't care less if the blade can keeping cutting cardboard forever if after 500 cuts it becomes what I consider too dull to do other tasks effectively.

Except this knife was well beyond 500 cuts and still plenty sharp to do other tasks effectively. I'm not saying you're wrong by wanting to know just the beginning part of the sharpness curve, as you prefer only the maximum sharpness possible. I do believe you are wrong, however, in saying you have "an average user's perspective." The average user of knives tends to maintain their knife in a sharp to moderately dull state, and nowhere near the maximum sharpness level you are seeking to obtain, at least judging by the people I tend to meet who carry knives. I'd wager that the vast majority of people (which would tend to skew towards the average) would be perfectly served by a knife that can cut this much and still slice phonebook paper. Again, not saying you're wrong in being interested in only the top percentage of retained sharpness, but I think you're probably an above average knife user rather than just "average". :)

After 5500 Ft of cardboard...

...

And it would still slice Phone Book Paper after.... Not easy, but it would do it....

Oh, I wasn't referring to this knife tested by Ankerson when I said 500 cuts, it was just blanket, general statement. Maybe that number is actually 5,000 cuts, idk.

[Bolster]

...Cliff tests sharpness by measuring force needed to cut string.

Ah, thank you Chuck. Exactly what I needed to know.

[Brock O Lee]

Also, I am curious and perhaps you might be able to answer this question since you are open to using lesser known alloys in knifemaking. But is there any reason why people aren't using 9v steel for blades?

It looks like it has a lot better edge retention than 3v yet is a lot tougher than 10v. Is there a reason that it isn't being used in knives? It seems to me like a very tough steel with still very great edge retention would be desirable in knife making but I haven't seen it used in any knives at all.......only the characteristics from the CPM data sheets.

Perhaps (likely) I am missing something in not understanding why we don't see this steel in knives? :confused:

Good question ManixFan,

The weakness of high carbide steels, in my experience, is handling accidental knocks on hard surfaces, which seems to happen often if you do not pay attention to avoid it. To sharpen out a decent chip or roll can be a real pain on S90V etc.

For that reason, nowadays I tend to lean more towards the tougher steels than high wear steels, for any work harder than light use EDC. They just resist damage so much better. Best I have seen from the steels I have experience with, is CPM-3V (in a med fixed blade) and to a lesser degree CPM-M4 (in folders). When I started out this hobby, I wanted the highest wear resistant steels above everything else, but I know now that I do not need super wear resistance on a day-to-day basis. What I find more important now is easy and discreet carry, light weight, ergonomics, corrosion resistance.

The design inconsistency I see here is that you have a big strong knife, apparently designed for "harder" work, but a steel which IMO is best suited for "lighter" work, where impacts are unlikely or avoidable. Huge amounts of light work... For light work however, I would much rather carry a smaller, lighter knife.

I do understand the appeal though. For $250 you get an impressive chunk of steel, masculine looks, high end materials, bragging rights, and at a price that compares well to other knives much smaller and less extreme than this.

[The Mastiff]

Also, I am curious and perhaps you might be able to answer this question since you are open to using lesser known alloys in knifemaking. But is there any reason why people aren't using 9v steel for blades?

This question is a pretty common one as the charts really seem to show an impressive steel with impressive attributes that can remind one of 10V. In fact, if you look at the hardness the steel was tested at it will rarely be over rc 52-53. This is designed to give the best performance it can at lower hardness. It very quickly loses it's great toughness as it goes up. IIRC, it's design hardness is way lower than what would be expected over knives used for cutlery.

I've never seen the steel available in the usual places that knifemakers go for their steel. I'm sure Sal or someone like Cliff can fill out the details and explain it better than I can but I believe we covered the important parts.

[The Mastiff]

15 years ago or there about the knife industry was really different from today. There were not many of the performance oriented sprints yet. Spyderco hadn't really made them a household name yet. I used to research the steels that looked really interesting to me on the internet. That is when I first heard of Farid, and saw his work. His Titanium knives in steels like T-1 ( 18% Tungsten !) grabbed my attention in a large way. Another thing I liked was the basic toughness and no frill design concept I was seeing. I was working 3 jobs then and seemed fairly broke but I was able to keep my family fed, in a nice neighborhood with good schools for Zach, and keep my car wrecking, check bouncing, job hopping wife safe and out of civil court and jail.

The thought of a Farid knife seemed pretty out of reach for me but I never gave up hope. Over the years I kept track of Farid watching his designs mature, new steels getting used ( he was using 10V over 10 years ago IIRC? ) . I contacted him once about putting in an order in about=t 3 months for a particular knife and asked him when he was going to run off a batch of them next. He was always nice to me, helpful and very likeable. He was very nice about it when 3 months later, even broker than before I told him I just couldn't afford to buy one of his knives. Never once did he show other than understanding and class. He's a good guy.

Reading his posts, watching the progress of new and very interesting projects I came to the conclusion that Farid could be described as one of us "steel junkies" but with the skills to actually see a new steel and make a knife out of it. His first fixed blade of Rex 121 was an example of that. He had a beginning to end description of it with pictures. I believe he got stock that annealed was still near rc 50 , so a bear to grind. I recall him talking about using maybe 50 (?) belts on that knife alone. I realized he was 1) still enjoying knife making rather than just doing it to pay the bills. 2) Farid is afraid of NO steel!

Now to this K2. Thanks to Sal I have one here and have no Jim Ankerson type tests, but I do have a few thoughts on it.As usual I have no camera. Me and cameras are a sad story. Last one I had was in the 80's when I was a traffic accident investigator ( in Colorado) and mostly used the camera at accident scenes to take very unpleasant pictures of bodies and body parts. Maybe it's PTSD, maybe just an old guy rationalizing to himself that if a picture is needed, let someone else take it. Had a wife for 25 years to do pictures but she's as gone as the 35 mm Canon I used to use.

The K2 is pure Farid. One look is all it takes. 10V is , and seems correct for this knife. It is a large, tough knife that feels large and tough. It's lock is thick and will last a long, long time if used as a knife should be/ There will always be someone who will throw it, pry, baton and whatnot with the knife. If you try you can probably destroy it with enough determination. I don't foresee it breaking by accident or negligence though. Not this one.

I have XXL to XXXL hands ( but fairly normal length fingers) and while it doesn't have the glove like sophistication of a stretch CF, or Calypso it does fit me well, and doesn't cause cramping or hot spots in my usage. There again I'm not using it 6 hours a day making a cabin or furniture.

The blade style, though not my first choice in folders ( I like more traditional clips) is still effective and takes well enough to my freehand sharpening.

Next:

[The Mastiff]

part 1: http://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtop ... &start=360

The 10V steel at around rc 62 is , IMO, about as high a carbide fraction and wear resistance as you can go without getting into toughness levels being so reduced that it's not worth the improvement. That includes steels like 15V and S125V. They are both fine steels but they present some challenges and limitations for not all that great of a gain in abrasive resistance. In fact, if you take the geometry into account some ways of preparing the above mentioned steels and geometries to hide the weaknesses make some of the steels perform not quite up to the limits of what we have here.

Cliff has stated one can't feel the differences in feel between the edges on say a razor steel, and 10V. I politely disagree. When the 10V bites me I can feel the carbides! :) I was bit twice already and the knife was already dulled by use at the time.

My use and testing has been slowed due to some personal life issues but this is one knife I am proud to have been selected by Sal to help test. It is one knife that I'll bet that the majority of forumites will wish they had it and this one will be a classic that people are searching high and low for. Performance wise this, as well as the S110V Manix are a next step in production knives. Not one knife on the market can give you what you have in this one at any price, but when you factor $239 at GPK, or $255 at KC you have more expensive run of the mill knives that are very pretty , smooth but with much lower performing steel. This knife comes tight BTW and needs break in, NOT taking apart and "fixing it", swearing it came that way and returning to W&R to fix what you broke. I see all the signs of a long life here. Kind of like Ed Schempp knives built tight to break in with use.

I'll add more when time allows but for now I say with certainty that if you are leaning towards buying this one save yourself some regret and grab one, or two. Maybe more even. :)

Sal, Thanks for the opportunity
Farid, Finally! Thanks for the excellent design. If I can ever afford it I still will buy that custom. In the mean time heal up and work on the next generation. Even you will have a tough time topping the performance on this one and doing it in a production setting.

Joe/the mastiff

[MCM]

Just got my pre-order in this morning at my favorite shop!
Thanks again!

MCM

[faridknives]

That is pretty cool! It's like a K2 Mehr.....and a mini-Mehr. Doctor Evil would approve! :D

What are the different blade sizes between the custom and the production? As well as the overall open & closed length? Do you think that the smaller version will ever end up as production?

Also, I am curious and perhaps you might be able to answer this question since you are open to using lesser known alloys in knifemaking. But is there any reason why people aren't using 9v steel for blades?

It looks like it has a lot better edge retention than 3v yet is a lot tougher than 10v. Is there a reason that it isn't being used in knives? It seems to me like a very tough steel with still very great edge retention would be desirable in knife making but I haven't seen it used in any knives at all.......only the characteristics from the CPM data sheets.

Perhaps (likely) I am missing something in not understanding why we don't see this steel in knives? :confused:

Spyderco version is the same size as the custom, same blade length, same closed length.
The small K2 as far as the custom version goes I will release that in 2015, Spyderco version I can not give any info right now.
9V is good as well, K390 is kind of similar with more carbon more moly with the added 1% Tungsten and added 2% Cobalt.
10v is not tougher that 3v, CPM-3v is in the extreme when it comes to toughness, it can be heat-treated to 62RC and it would actually be tougher than most heat-treated steels on the planet (for knife application), CPM-4v is the next best thing after CPM-3v.

You don't often see some of the steels I use because most people just want to make a knife, that's all, I want more than that from my knives, also my experiments don't always work as well as I would like them to, for example the CPM-REX 121 blades I have made although it is a high carbide steel but it was never made for knives, it is a 'Tooling Steel' but I experimented with it and it kind of worked for 'Knife Application' and it kind of didn't but we all have to experiment, live and learn from all our experiments.

CPM-10v on the other hand is one of the ultimate steels for knife application. I hope I have answered all your questions.
F

[Ankerson]

Quick overview Video...

[faridknives]

15 years ago or there about the knife industry was really different from today. There were not many of the performance oriented sprints yet. Spyderco hadn't really made them a household name yet. I used to research the steels that looked really interesting to me on the internet. That is when I first heard of Farid, and saw his work. His Titanium knives in steels like T-1 ( 18% Tungsten !) grabbed my attention in a large way. Another thing I liked was the basic toughness and no frill design concept I was seeing. I was working 3 jobs then and seemed fairly broke but I was able to keep my family fed, in a nice neighborhood with good schools for Zach, and keep my car wrecking, check bouncing, job hopping wife safe and out of civil court and jail.

The thought of a Farid knife seemed pretty out of reach for me but I never gave up hope. Over the years I kept track of Farid watching his designs mature, new steels getting used ( he was using 10V over 10 years ago IIRC? ) . I contacted him once about putting in an order in about=t 3 months for a particular knife and asked him when he was going to run off a batch of them next. He was always nice to me, helpful and very likeable. He was very nice about it when 3 months later, even broker than before I told him I just couldn't afford to buy one of his knives. Never once did he show other than understanding and class. He's a good guy.

Reading his posts, watching the progress of new and very interesting projects I came to the conclusion that Farid could be described as one of us "steel junkies" but with the skills to actually see a new steel and make a knife out of it. His first fixed blade of Rex 121 was an example of that. He had a beginning to end description of it with pictures. I believe he got stock that annealed was still near rc 50 , so a bear to grind. I recall him talking about using maybe 50 (?) belts on that knife alone. I realized he was 1) still enjoying knife making rather than just doing it to pay the bills. 2) Farid is afraid of NO steel!

Now to this K2. Thanks to Sal I have one here and have no Jim Ankerson type tests, but I do have a few thoughts on it.As usual I have no camera. Me and cameras are a sad story. Last one I had was in the 80's when I was a traffic accident investigator ( in Colorado) and mostly used the camera at accident scenes to take very unpleasant pictures of bodies and body parts. Maybe it's PTSD, maybe just an old guy rationalizing to himself that if a picture is needed, let someone else take it. Had a wife for 25 years to do pictures but she's as gone as the 35 mm Canon I used to use.

The K2 is pure Farid. One look is all it takes. 10V is , and seems correct for this knife. It is a large, tough knife that feels large and tough. It's lock is thick and will last a long, long time if used as a knife should be/ There will always be someone who will throw it, pry, baton and whatnot with the knife. If you try you can probably destroy it with enough determination. I don't foresee it breaking by accident or negligence though. Not this one.

I have XXL to XXXL hands ( but fairly normal length fingers) and while it doesn't have the glove like sophistication of a stretch CF, or Calypso it does fit me well, and doesn't cause cramping or hot spots in my usage. There again I'm not using it 6 hours a day making a cabin or furniture.

The blade style, though not my first choice in folders ( I like more traditional clips) is still effective and takes well enough to my freehand sharpening.

Next:

Hello Joe, over the years I have had nothing but respect from you, towards me and my work. Thank you always for your support.
It is people like you I design and build my knives for.
Farid

[Wanimator]

I have to agree Joe. His dedication is amazing, I'm afraid to get my hands on a K2, because I don't think I'll want to carry anything else.

[RamZar]

The September 2014 Spyderco Byte has a nice write-up on the new K2.

• "Farid Mehr is a British custom knifemaker who is best known for his hollow-handled fixed-blade survival knives and heavy-duty, hard-use folding knives. A full-time maker, he also crafts custom-made leather and Kydex® sheaths and makes a variety of other custom knives to meet his customers’ needs and interests.
  
  Strength is the most prized quality of most of Farid’s knife designs, so his folders tend to be large and boast stainless steel or titanium handle scales and Reeve Integral Locks (R.I.L.). He also has a penchant for using exotic blade steels with reputations for edge holding and toughness. One of his most popular models is his K2 folder, which is slightly smaller and lighter than many of his other designs without sacrificing the key qualities that make his knives unique. It was therefore the ideal choice for his first collaboration with Spyderco.
  
  The K2 is a generously sized folding knife designed to withstand the rigors of serious cutting chores. Just shy of 10 inches (254mm) overall, it features a 4.53-inch (115mm) blade ground from CPM® 10V®—the first high-vanadium tool steel made using Crucible® steel’s Powder Metallurgy process. CPM 10V’s toughness and machining characteristics are comparable to D2 and M2, but it’s impressive 9.75% vanadium content gives it extreme wear resistance. In a knife blade, this translates to superior edge retention—a highly desirable quality for a hard-use folder.
  
  To balance the strength of its broad Bowie-style blade, the K2 features a full-flat grind that tapers over its entire width to a keen PlainEdge™ cutting edge. The blade’s spine is also precisely radiused near the handle to provide a comfortable bearing point for the thumb during demanding cutting chores. An amazing synthesis of strength and cutting performance, the K2’s blade also features Spyderco’s Trademark Round Hole™ for positive one-handed opening.
  
  The K2’s handle is also a study in strength. It consists of two extremely stout scales machined from solid titanium. The reverse scale forms the foundation of the knife’s sturdy Reeve Integral Lock (R.I.L.) and faithfully includes Farid’s signature serpentine cut on the lock bar. The lock bar’s relief cut is also made on the outside of the handle scale to create a straight-line force vector to the blade’s tang ramp for maximum lock strength. Like all well-made R.I.L. knives, the K2 to is designed so a firm grip on the handle actually reinforces the function of the lock and greatly reduces the chances of unintentional lock release during use. Despite the K2’s impressive size, it is easily and conveniently carried by virtue of a stainless steel pocket clip that positions the knife for right-side, tip-down carry. In this position, the knife is drawn pivot-end first, leaving your hand perfectly positioned for a smooth, one-handed opening. For users who prefer extra security or enjoy accessorizing their knives, the K2’s handle also includes a generously sized lanyard hole for easy attachment of fobs or lanyards.
  
  Spyderco’s K2 combines the durability and heft that characterize Farid Mehr’s custom knives with the refined details that define Spyderco’s commitment to reliable high performance."

[nccole]

Has anyone besides the the testers gotten their K2 yet? Care to share some pics in the wild?

Also, I'm by no means a knife tester, but from an average user's (me) perspective, I care much more about the beginning part of the sharpness curve as someone previously mentioned Cliff favored in testing as well? I couldn't care less if the blade can keeping cutting cardboard forever if after 500 cuts it becomes what I consider too dull to do other tasks effectively.

Not a great shot, but here is mine

[ManixFan]

That is pretty cool! It's like a K2 Mehr.....and a mini-Mehr. Doctor Evil would approve! :D

What are the different blade sizes between the custom and the production? As well as the overall open & closed length? Do you think that the smaller version will ever end up as production?

Also, I am curious and perhaps you might be able to answer this question since you are open to using lesser known alloys in knifemaking. But is there any reason why people aren't using 9v steel for blades?

It looks like it has a lot better edge retention than 3v yet is a lot tougher than 10v. Is there a reason that it isn't being used in knives? It seems to me like a very tough steel with still very great edge retention would be desirable in knife making but I haven't seen it used in any knives at all.......only the characteristics from the CPM data sheets.

Perhaps (likely) I am missing something in not understanding why we don't see this steel in knives? :confused:

Spyderco version is the same size as the custom, same blade length, same closed length.
The small K2 as far as the custom version goes I will release that in 2015, Spyderco version I can not give any info right now.
9V is good as well, K390 is kind of similar with more carbon more moly with the added 1% Tungsten and added 2% Cobalt.
10v is not tougher that 3v, CPM-3v is in the extreme when it comes to toughness, it can be heat-treated to 62RC and it would actually be tougher than most heat-treated steels on the planet (for knife application), CPM-4v is the next best thing after CPM-3v.

You don't often see some of the steels I use because most people just want to make a knife, that's all, I want more than that from my knives, also my experiments don't always work as well as I would like them to, for example the CPM-REX 121 blades I have made although it is a high carbide steel but it was never made for knives, it is a 'Tooling Steel' but I experimented with it and it kind of worked for 'Knife Application' and it kind of didn't but we all have to experiment, live and learn from all our experiments.

CPM-10v on the other hand is one of the ultimate steels for knife application. I hope I have answered all your questions.
F

Thank you Farid and Joe for answering my questions. I will certainly be getting my K2 soon when my local distributor receives their shipment. I love the size and shape of the current K2 and it would be awesome if this new production knife spawned a sprint in 3V sometime in the future.......I'd be getting one of those for sure. Right now the only 3V blade that Spyderco offers is the Tuff and both the handle and blade shape just don't do it for me whereas the appearance of the K2 gets my attention right away. A very nice looking design for sure!