What's Going on in the Japan Plant?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
Jazz
Member
Posts: 7405
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Postby Jazz » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:29 pm

I just don't like how much blade they grind away in sharpening the new Delicas and Enduras. Looks like I've owned and used them for years.
- best wishes, Jazz.

User avatar
Cheddarnut
Member
Posts: 1151
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:14 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Postby Cheddarnut » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:54 pm

Fit and finish may be too subjective to agree upon. I judge spyderco knives by the best of what i have recieved from them, and the things that are important to me may be overlooked by everyone else. Gaps are empirical issues, but rounding off of the lapping of the flatness of the blade stock where the blade isnt sharpened isnt. What gets me is when cheap models get top mrks for finish (ukpk) and expensive models miss the details (cruwear millie) I think id like to work in th factory for a month to get a sense of how things operate to better understand the system. Are friday knives rushed, are there certain people with better finese. Theres ao mich speculation as to why things vary, ive always been surprised so much human labour is involved in production when it seems like machines would simplify things. I grew up fascinated by ball bearings and always assumed that kind of accuracy should be possible with knives. Again, if i had any idea what the actuallity of knife production was i could better appreciate the inconsistencies.
"...is cabbage a better blue than cars that sing?" C.S.

User avatar
Cheddarnut
Member
Posts: 1151
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:14 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Postby Cheddarnut » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:55 pm

And if i wasnt too drunk to spell y'all could understand ma werds gooder.
"...is cabbage a better blue than cars that sing?" C.S.

User avatar
razorsharp
Member
Posts: 3061
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:41 pm
Location: New Zealand

Postby razorsharp » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:16 am

since we are mentioning Japan defects one little pet peeve I have is when they do the final satin finish, sometimes the finish runs in 2 different direction.... looks a little bad. Actually I have had that from china and Golden too.... Taiwan is always flawless, even for me, Mr.Picky

My Caly 3.5 Superblue although not done in the same factory had a uneven primary grind which is a big reason for me to start to learn to regrind (fix it, plus make it better at the cost of a warranty) and it had oodles of bladeplay but I let that pass as a common lockback trait .

cckw
Member
Posts: 688
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: Omaha NE

Postby cckw » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:52 am

I have not observed any obvious change. Knives vary from one to the next within a run and I have not felt I was seeing any differences other then that. But if this thread makes a difference in attention to detail I'm glad you brought it up.

Cujobob
Member
Posts: 844
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:26 pm

Postby Cujobob » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:29 am

I've had my share of F&F issues from each country producing knives for the company (I haven't had one from Italy, though). Sometimes luck of the draw plays into it. I would also think that inexpensive lines (Delica, Endura, etc) are more likely to have issues as well as will any location with newer employees or that is short staffed. In China, they can likely throw out any bad knives since they're so cheap to produce there.

DeathBySnooSnoo
Member
Posts: 3660
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:30 pm
Location: Toronto Canada

Postby DeathBySnooSnoo » Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:29 am

I've brought up a few times that I have seen issues with a couple of the recent Japanese made models. Not sure what is going on over there, if it is a slow decline in quality of the manufaturing or just a number of knives making it through inspection that shouldn't have. Either way, I have been avoiding knives from Japan even when they are models that I am really interested in.
On the hunt for...

User avatar
morgaj1
Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:41 am
Location: Alabama

Postby morgaj1 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:32 am

Blerv wrote:Getting one or two knives not meeting your ideal specs doesn't mean a slip of F&F but rather a bad statistical dice toss from makers that finish knives on power belts. In order to see a global decrease in F&F quality you would have compare a large number over time, or even of the same model.

The only thing consistent with the Japanese makers is an increase in MRSP over years past and that's a problem with the economy.

In almost every case if someone isn't satisfied with a knife they can return it to Spyderco with a note explaining their lack of satisfaction. In a short amount of time either they will get an explanation or a new knife (likely the latter). Both the company and the makers in Japan are extremely proud of their products. They are also human which inherently means they can make mistakes.

PS: As a side-note, my understanding is grinding a perfect wharncliff is a very difficult task. While it shouldn't look like a hawkbill the possibility of having a slight curve is always there just like having a perfectly symmetrical grind is unlikely (human hands < robot hands)
Blerv, I wasn't claiming to have a statistical study on my hands. What I do have is real life examples of poor fit and finish. I understand that I can send a knife back to Spyderco for repair, as I've done it on 2 knives over the years. What I don't understand is defending poor quality. I feel that it is completely realistic to expect a knife that costs >$100 to have good fit/finish out of the box. I love Spyderco knives as much as the next guy, but also have the objectivity to realize that no company is perfect. The only way that Sal, et. al, will know about quality issues is to hear from the end user.

billy blade
Member
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 6:36 pm
Location: Illinois

Postby billy blade » Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:03 pm

timlara wrote:I, too, appreciate that we have the ability to speak candidly about Spyderco products here. As long as the feedback is given politely and in a constructive way (as I think morgaj1's was), Spyderco can benefit greatly. In an era where so many companies don't seem to care what their customers think (as long as products are moving), it is refreshing that Sal & Co take the time to not only listen to end-line-user feedback, but often actually act on it as well. It's a huge reason why I will give Spyderco my hard earned money again and again, even if I have an occasional problem or two.
Yes, it is great that we have a place where we have a place to voice our opinions both good and bad of our favorite product line. The members here are a terrific group. Plus we can directly interact with a owner and his team who listen to what we have to say both good and bad.

mark jeneson
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:07 pm
Location: Minnesota

Postby mark jeneson » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:12 pm

The Taichung models are just incredible. Cheers to the folks that put those things together. I would agree with the Seki knives being of lesser F&F than Golden and Taichung. I've had two slightly off center Spydies. Both came from Japan. But i love them both and centering, as long as it's not rubbing, doesn't really bug me too much.

ABX2011
Member
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:54 pm

Postby ABX2011 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:42 pm

I've observed the same thing - inconsistent quality from the Seki makers. I won't buy any more Spydercos made in Japan without first reading/watching many reviews. Even then, I would prefer to buy one made in Golden or Taichung.

User avatar
SolidState
Member
Posts: 1739
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:37 pm
Location: Oregon

Postby SolidState » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:16 pm

My last 4 knives from Moki have had issues with the edge bevel and tip. My kiwi had an incredibly blunt edge that wouldn't even slice paper, and a bit of hawk bill. I've noticed the same thing as you. With some of them, they were sprints, or I would have sent them back for spyderco to evaluate. Instead, I ended up doing complete regrinds.

I personally like that they left some more meat toward the tip so that I can sharpen without making it a leaf blade within the first few years. I saw that as a big plus.

In terms of the edge, I don't see it as a problem, as I reprofile virtually every knife I get as soon as they come in. When I look at spending $100 or more on a knife, I look at it as buying the perfect scaffold that I can then mod into exactly what I want. With my Kiwi, I ended up significantly rebeveling it to a hamaguri edge that is really thin. It is now a laser.
"Nothing is so fatal to the progress of the human mind as to suppose that our views of science are ultimate; that there are no mysteries in nature; that our triumphs are complete, and that there are no new worlds to conquer."
Sir Humphry Davy

User avatar
bh49
Member
Posts: 11463
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:37 pm
Location: former Constitution state

Postby bh49 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:28 pm

I didn't buy a lot of NIB Japanese made Spydies lately, but Calypso and Worker are flawless. Like in old time.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
George Orwell
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian,Hungarian, Memory

User avatar
Blerv
Member
Posts: 11695
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 11:24 am

Postby Blerv » Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:36 pm

morgaj1 wrote:Blerv, I wasn't claiming to have a statistical study on my hands. What I do have is real life examples of poor fit and finish. I understand that I can send a knife back to Spyderco for repair, as I've done it on 2 knives over the years. What I don't understand is defending poor quality. I feel that it is completely realistic to expect a knife that costs >$100 to have good fit/finish out of the box. I love Spyderco knives as much as the next guy, but also have the objectivity to realize that no company is perfect. The only way that Sal, et. al, will know about quality issues is to hear from the end user.
I'm not attempting to squelch anyone's voice nor am defending poor quality. Just saying the difference between having a few knives with less than expected levels of f&f is more an anecdotal example rather than a trend. For the same reason the last half dozen or so of my Japanese Spydies surely wouldn't be an example of climbing QC.

I bet Sal and co appreciate all the feedback. They alone know the percentage of returned knives from each maker and can chart their historical accuracy. My guess is Taichung is higher than most but based mainly on being a smaller facility, producing less knives per year, and less of those being sprints which tend to be less accurate due to learning curves.

Again, not trying to invalidate anyone's experience, just pointing out the difference in definitions which is irrelevant to a few frustrating examples. I certainly would send them in with feedback requesting a second look...that's another way QC can be maintained.

As a side note...was it just the Kiwi that failed your expectations? Second knife from Moki? Which models and how many examples? Just trying to clarify.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

User avatar
anagarika
Member
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:59 pm

Postby anagarika » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:06 pm

My only Japan made is Endura SB. Other than asymmetrical SB-420J lines on both sides of blade which is only slight and expected, it's perfect (none of centering, lockup, bladeplay, etc. issue).

User avatar
morgaj1
Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:41 am
Location: Alabama

Postby morgaj1 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:18 pm

Blerv wrote:I'm not attempting to squelch anyone's voice nor am defending poor quality. Just saying the difference between having a few knives with less than expected levels of f&f is more an anecdotal example rather than a trend. For the same reason the last half dozen or so of my Japanese Spydies surely wouldn't be an example of climbing QC.

I bet Sal and co appreciate all the feedback. They alone know the percentage of returned knives from each maker and can chart their historical accuracy. My guess is Taichung is higher than most but based mainly on being a smaller facility, producing less knives per year, and less of those being sprints which tend to be less accurate due to learning curves.

Again, not trying to invalidate anyone's experience, just pointing out the difference in definitions which is irrelevant to a few frustrating examples. I certainly would send them in with feedback requesting a second look...that's another way QC can be maintained.

As a side note...was it just the Kiwi that failed your expectations? Second knife from Moki? Which models and how many examples? Just trying to clarify.
I'm following you. I've had the Kiwi4, a Delica, a Manbug and a Dragonfly recently that had what I would consider QC issues.

User avatar
Blerv
Member
Posts: 11695
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 11:24 am

Postby Blerv » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:50 pm

morgaj1 wrote:I'm following you. I've had the Kiwi4, a Delica, a Manbug and a Dragonfly recently that had what I would consider QC issues.
Ah ok. The Kiwi isn't made by the people who did the Dragonfly or Manbug.

Sorry for your frustrations. Hope it's just bad luck and about to turn for the better.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

User avatar
Cheddarnut
Member
Posts: 1151
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:14 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Postby Cheddarnut » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:09 pm

Note: my manbug zdp received lSt august is wonderfully finished, so it may be specific manufacturers that are suspect.
"...is cabbage a better blue than cars that sing?" C.S.

User avatar
wrdwrght
Member
Posts: 2908
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:35 am
Location: New Hampshire

Postby wrdwrght » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:01 am

anagarika wrote:My only Japan made is Endura SB. Other than asymmetrical SB-420J lines on both sides of blade which is only slight and expected, it's perfect (none of centering, lockup, bladeplay, etc. issue).
Hadn't occurred to me that the uneven and unequal reveal lines on my cladded Stretch SB sprint were a QC issue, but, if they are, I'll mention it here for Sal's benefit. Apart from these lines (suggesting a needed tweak of a robot or a more senior guy at the grinder?), my knife falls entirely within my tolerances.
Marc <— a mere data-point

RECENT ARRIVAL: Maxamet PM2. ON RADAR: Lil’ Native slipjoint; Siren; PM2 tanto; SPY27 Para3; S45V PM2 sprint; Rex45 Native Chief sprint. IN DREAMS: V4E Military2 stop-lock; 4V Native Chief; Slysz Swayback; C27 serrated Jess Horn; Vanax Massad Ayoob (SE) sprint; LC200N Breeden Captain (recurve SE) sprint.

User avatar
Blerv
Member
Posts: 11695
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 11:24 am

Postby Blerv » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:26 pm

wrdwrght wrote:Hadn't occurred to me that the uneven and unequal reveal lines on my cladded Stretch SB sprint were a QC issue, but, if they are, I'll mention it here for Sal's benefit. Apart from these lines (suggesting a needed tweak of a robot or a more senior guy at the grinder?), my knife falls entirely within my tolerances.
It's not a QC issue. They have been uneven and wavy from Spyderco's first use of that technique about a decade ago. I'm not sure mechanical automation on that level would cure the issue but it's probably not even an option unless Ford or Toyota decide to start making pocket knives.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: attila, Bing [Bot], GiftedMisfit, kirill.sergueev, Lodestar, mjcarp, Ric, Tgmr05 and 33 guests