Paramilitary 2 design changes?

[salimoneus]

I bought a digi-cam PM2 with polished S30v blade shortly after they came out, and it has always been quite smooth in operation.

I recently picked up another brand new one of the same exact style, and I notice a couple differences.

1) There is less side to side blade play when the knife is closed than my first one. I believe PM2s have been known for a small amount of side to side play, due to the shape or machining of the bronze washers. This may have been intentional or not, I don't really know and it doesn't really bother me too much.

2) Engaging the lock lever to close the knife is now much more difficult, and requires enough force to result in a "snap" feeling upon release. I have heard some people complain that PM2s are too easy to close accidentally when working the knife rigorously. Just from personal experience on my first PM2 the lock release lever requires very little pressure to disengage, as compared to the newer one. I have not had any adverse affects because of this however.


So two "issues" that people have complained about in the past seemed to have been "fixed" with the latest version I have, but I'm not sure if there were actually any design changes at all. Perhaps I'm just experiencing minor variations in behavior due to manufacturing tolerances?

[Blerv]

If I had to guess those are just manufacturing differences. Production knives vary a bit piece by piece. Part of the "lottery" I guess depending on your own preferences.

[JNewell]

I bought a digi-cam PM2 with polished S30v blade shortly after they came out, and it has always been quite smooth in operation.

I recently picked up another brand new one of the same exact style, and I notice a couple differences.

1) There is less side to side blade play when the knife is closed than my first one. I believe PM2s have been known for a small amount of side to side play, due to the shape or machining of the bronze washers. This may have been intentional or not, I don't really know and it doesn't really bother me too much.

2) Engaging the lock lever to close the knife is now much more difficult, and requires enough force to result in a "snap" feeling upon release. I have heard some people complain that PM2s are too easy to close accidentally when working the knife rigorously. Just from personal experience on my first PM2 the lock release lever requires very little pressure to disengage, as compared to the newer one. I have not had any adverse affects because of this however.


So two "issues" that people have complained about in the past seemed to have been "fixed" with the latest version I have, but I'm not sure if there were actually any design changes at all. Perhaps I'm just experiencing minor variations in behavior due to manufacturing tolerances?

Yes, just normal manufacturing tolerances, probably not any manufacturing changes (though you never really know unless Sal or Eric chimes in). The side to side play would not be the washers. It is either (1) a pivot that's at the larger end of the dimensional tolerances or (2) lack of adjustment at the factory when the pivot bolts were tightened, or both.

[salimoneus]

The side to side play would not be the washers. .

Ahh ok. I thought I had seen a video or read an article that described sanding down the washers or something similar to eliminate side to side play on a PM2, but that may have been more of an isolated case.

[Evil D]

Ahh ok. I thought I had seen a video or read an article that described sanding down the washers or something similar to eliminate side to side play on a PM2, but that may have been more of an isolated case.

I made a thread here a couple years ago about sanding the ends of the pivot bushing down a bit and it did help, but that was on the 20CP sprint which did have some side play issues pretty much all across the board. I wouldn't say the model in particular has blade play issues, it likely had something to do with the thickness of the blade stock used on that sprint. I've owned 2 others that had no play issues at all. A lot of these issues you read about come from people who fiddle with the screws and then wonder why they have blade play. In the end remember that this is the internet and even if you read 100 threads about it, it's still probably blown way out of proportion and still isolated incidences.

[paladin]

Design changes?

For the Para 2?

Well then, that would be a Para 3 , wouldn't it?

I prefer the pivot on my Para 1...put that on a Para 2 and we can call it a Paramilitary 3...

Para 1 + Para 2 = Para 3...done

[Blerv]

Design changes?

For the Para 2?

Well then, that would be a Para 3 , wouldn't it?

I prefer the pivot on my Para 1...put that on a Para 2 and we can call it a Paramilitary 3...

Para 1 + Para 2 = Para 3...done

Typically a revised model (ie #2, #3, etc) needs a bit more. Usually a handle or blade shape change.

Mild tweaks are often deemed "CQI", Continuous quality improvement.

[sir_mike]

^ yeah that. Maybe it is a PM2 rev. 2

[paladin]

^ yeah that. Maybe it is a PM2 rev. 2

Paramilitary 2.1 :p

[JNewell]

Paramilitary 2.1 :p

Paramilitary 2 Mk2??? :D

[JNewell]

Ahh ok. I thought I had seen a video or read an article that described sanding down the washers or something similar to eliminate side to side play on a PM2, but that may have been more of an isolated case.

Reducing the washer thickness should increase side to side play. :)

[phillipsted]

My new Elmax PM2 has definitely received some CQI changes. For one thing, the blade closing detent is much stronger, making the knife safer to carry in pocket - but requiring a little more force to flip open. Second, the overall fit an finish of the lockbar and liner are much better than on previous models. Gone are the ridges and machining marks - classy! The etching on the tang of the blade is also done using a different machining technique - the script looks similar, but the new model looks a bit cleaner.

I haven't disassembled the Elmax model yet, so I'm sure there are some additional tweaks "under the hood"...

TedP

[Liquid Cobra]

My new Cruwear PM2 has definitely received some CQI changes. For one thing, the blade closing detent is much stronger, making the knife safer to carry in pocket - but requiring a little more force to flip open. Second, the overall fit an finish of the lockbar and liner are much better than on previous models. Gone are the ridges and machining marks - classy! The etching on the tang of the blade is also done using a different machining technique - the script looks similar, but the new model looks a bit cleaner.

I haven't disassembled the Cruwear model yet, so I'm sure there are some additional tweaks "under the hood"...

TedP

Sorry, paramilitary 2 cruwear?????

[RanCoWeAla]

The PM2 would be a fine knife if made as a liner lock. However I owned two and got rid of both because I hated the compression lock.

[rodloos]

I have quite a few PM2's and I'd say the 4 or so that I bought most recently (in the last 3 to 6 months) are definitely "tighter" - so snug the blade doesn't even fall down when releasing the lock while holding the knife horizontally. Whether that is productions variances, or just a bit of CQI to eliminate any blade play, I'm not sure. It doesn't bother me any that they are tighter, I figure they will loosen up with use anyway.

I haven't noticed any blade play on my PM2's yet, not even the 20CP one (I happen to be carrying it today) but then I haven't really put mine to *hard* use at all yet.

[phillipsted]

Sorry, paramilitary 2 cruwear?????

Brain fart. I meant "Elmax"... :rolleyes:

Thanks for keeping me honest, Cobra!

TedP

[FDE]

I have quite a few PM2's and I'd say the 4 or so that I bought most recently (in the last 3 to 6 months) are definitely "tighter" - so snug the blade doesn't even fall down when releasing the lock while holding the knife horizontally. Whether that is productions variances, or just a bit of CQI to eliminate any blade play, I'm not sure. It doesn't bother me any that they are tighter, I figure they will loosen up with use anyway.

I haven't noticed any blade play on my PM2's yet, not even the 20CP one (I happen to be carrying it today) but then I haven't really put mine to *hard* use at all yet.

I noticed my more recent PM2s have been tighter from the factory than my older ones were as well. I think it is a deliberate change/improvement because after some break in the 2 I've used the most have become perfect; smooth, no blade play at all, and swing freely when the lock is released. If you start out with a perfect action using new bushings it will be sloppy (blade play) when they get worn in.
That's why I advocate new PM2 owners who think their knife is too tight to not mess with the screws and just use it.

[salimoneus]

Reducing the washer thickness should increase side to side play. :)

I think it had more to do with the washers being slightly bubbled up on the inside edge of the hole, so the sanding was done to remove the lip and make them flat again. It sounds like this was just an isolated case where very few were affected though.

[Liquid Cobra]

Brain fart. I meant "Elmax"... :rolleyes:

Thanks for keeping me honest, Cobra!

TedP

We all have our moments

Now if you don't mind, I'll continue pretending to live in a world where a Cruwear PM2 exists.

[z4vdBt]

My experience has been with a user blue M390 PM2, and a brand new black G-10 PM2 satin blade.

black G10: Breaking it in. Only a few hundred openings and closings, and it still does not drop free 90 deg out when comp lock hit. Got very rough so I put a drop of FP-10 into the pivot. Comp lock has a noticeable click when activating. Markings on left and right (Spyd.. CPM S30V and Gold., Co. U.S.A., Earth) are not aligned perfectly with choil flat, kick - line that extends from thumb hole (nbd).

blue: Very smooth. Blade drops free and swings back and forth 90 deg out when comp lock hit. Comp lock has a slight click when activating. Markings on left and right (Spyd.. M390 and Gold., Co. U.S.A. Earth) are aligned perfectly with choil flat, kick - line that extends from thumb hole.

edit:

Here's a pic of how my black G-10 lettering is aligned (borrowed pic):



I think most are now lined up this way, and seem to be lined up to the pivot rather than the choil flat line from the hole.