Blabe Contact

[MountainManJim]

Hey all,

I picked a very used 440V Native. I cleaned it up and reprofiled the edge and then noticed that the edge contacts the spring when closed. It looks like there is sufficient wear on the blade and lock bar that edge isn't kicked off the bottom of the handle internals. This condition stinks because the blade steel seems to be very nice, but the blade will always be dull.

Anyone have a good way to correcting this problem??

Thanks,

Jim

[MountainManJim]

And no, I do not know what a "blabe" is

[Fancier]

I don't have a particularly good way of fixing the problem, but if you sharpen the dings out every time the blabe hits bottom eventually the problem will go away.

[JD Spydo]

One of my favorite hard use/punishment work blades is my 440V Spyderedged Native similar to the one you just got. Personally I've always liked 440V blade steel other than it being an outright monster to sharpen :rolleyes:

You'll love that knife if you plan to do some punishing work with it because I'm here to tell you that knife can take it. Like I told my brethren a while back I had a massive job in which I thought I was going to trash out one of my knives. I had even resigned myself that my 440V SE Native was headed to the graveyard but I was willing to do that to get a job done that I was being paid well for at the time. Must to my most pleasant surprise not only did it endure the absolutely horrid punishment I gave it>> that knife is still in my arsenal and still very much an active USER to be sure.

The serrations on my 440V Native are almost impossible to dull. I only give that knife one to 2 good sharpenings a year. Thank GOD for the 701 Profiles again.

I really came to appreciate just about any Golden made knife out of the 440V era. Like the ATS-55 era the few blades that were endowed with 440V blade steel really made their mark on Spyder History. I'm sad that you can't get that blade steel anymore. I would have loved to have tried a fixed blade made with that blade steel.

[mikerestivo]

And no, I do not know what a "blabe" is

A "blabe" is a very good looking woman who is into knives.

[Enkidude]

A "blabe" is a very good looking woman who is into knives.

lol!

[MountainManJim]

A "blabe" is a very good looking woman who is into knives.

LOL. Very funny :)

[MountainManJim]

JD,

Unfortunately, this is not a SE blade. So, a large portion of the edge gets dulled.

All,

I'm thinking about adding a dot of epoxy to the lock arm to hold the blade off the spring. Anyone ever try this??

Jim

[Jax]

If the epoxy dot doesn't work,maybe you can sculpt a hump with JB weld after you filed/sanded the lockbar for some texture for the stuff to grab too.
Or perhaps drill a hole in the lock bar and press fit or thread a screw into there,then trim the screw to whatever size works to keep the blade off the spring.

[PayneTrain]

How is the lockup when open? I'd much sooner add something to the blade tang than to the lock bar, you don't wanna screw that up. Something must be out of place or deformed, I can't imagine the lock bar or the contact surface on the tang wearing to the point that this becomes an issue. Does anything else look strange? Any way you can show us some pics?

[Holland]

I would also love to see some pictures before suggesting anything

[cckw]

I think some photos would be helpful. you have several guys here who like to tinker and would put some good thought and experience into it. regarding epoxy, I can't see that lasting in this role. As jax touched on adding something steel would be needed. It could be epoxied in place. Keep the thread updated with your work on this.

[MountainManJim]

Hey All,

Here's some picture of what I did:

Knife in question:



View of the visable wear on the blade where it contacts the lockbar hump. I believe this wear changed the geometry of the knife and allows the blade to contact the lock spring.



Example of how I believe the system works:



So, I applied exopy to the area of the blade that isn't worn very much thinking that this could act as a bumper that will kick the blade off the bottom of the handle and lock spring:



So far it seems to be working. No wear on the blade edge that would indicate that it's contacting the spring.

Jim

[xceptnl]

Jim your pictures are worth a thousand words. Congrats on overcoming your engineering issues.

[The Deacon]

Glad your mod is working, but I do find it odd. For one thing, it was always my impression that on the real midlocks the kick was what pressed against the lockbar and since it never makes contact otherwise, a blade should not contact the spring unless someone ground the kick down, either intentionally, to make the tip seat deeper in the handle, or by accident. For another, even if the geometry is like the wooden D'fly, there's still the question of why those surfaces would wear since the only contact under pressure is between the "bottom" surface of the locking portion of the lockbar and the semi-circular portion of the blade tang that rides against it when the blade is being opened or closed.

[JD Spydo]

JD,

Unfortunately, this is not a SE blade. So, a large portion of the edge gets dulled.

It doesn't matter because a 440V (S60V) is a great blade steel IMO. It's interesting that you would find one at this stage of the game. I'm finding any Spyder with 440V, ATS-34 or ATS-55 are all getting rather difficult to find. I'm hoping to find a 440V SE Military before the year is up. But I would settle for an ATS-34 SE Military as well.

What blew me away about my 440V SE Native is how much punishment it took and it's still in great workable condition. I wish you luck with you vintage Native.

[MountainManJim]

Deacon : What’s your understanding of which part of the blade is used as the kick? Reviewing my pictures again, it looks like I added the epoxy to the wrong part of the blade.

Upon further review, the worn part the blade is actually where the lock bar’s follower starts to ramp up the blade’s cam. I don’t think this area functions as the blade kick. I really need to add my epoxy bumper further to the left of where I put it. I think the part of where I put the epoxy actually hits air.

As far as my report of the function of my fix, I noticed blade clicks when I close it, indicating that I missed with my bumper. Back to the drawing board.

So, ignore some of my comments on the pictures. I’ll update you guys once I add another epoxy kick. I might also take a Delica apart to see where the blade kick is.

Jim

[The Deacon]

Deacon : What’s your understanding of which part of the blade is used as the kick?
Jim

Jim, I've always been under the impression that it's the projection at the front of the blade tang, directly behind the sharpened edge on models like the Native, or directly behind the sharpening choil on models like the Kiwi that have one.

EDITED TO ADD: Here's Spyderco's definition, from their glossary of knife terms:

Kick: The unsharpened portion on the underside of a knife blade adjacent to the edge. The kick prevents the edge from touching the inside of the handle when closed.

And A. G. Russell's, from their Knfie Encyclopedia's glossary:

Kick: A projection at the bottom of the tang at the end of the edge, by resting on the spring this projection controls the distance of the edge from the back spring when the knife is closed.

[MountainManJim]

JD,

My thought with SE edge is that wear from hitting the spring would be limited to the points of the SE edge. With the PE edge, I end up with a much larger dulled area.

By the way, in checking the completed listing on the Bay, there were a number of 440V Natives that sold for a reasonable price. It's the Militaries that go for a lot.

Jim

[MountainManJim]

Deacon,
That’s my understanding as well for the blade kick. I wasn’t sure because of the wooden Dragonfly and the Spyder Wrench, pic below.



But, the Delica certainly hits on the little kick on the blade, pic below.



I have a temporary fixed my little problem by adding putty to the lock bar where the blade should hit. It works and will let me carry my US made knife tomorrow. From looking at the putty, it does appear that the large kick of the Native blade is supposed to work as a kick. I still don’t really know why the kick is not working; I don’t see any wear. But, I think I need to add material here:



Live and learn I guess,

Jim