Brown G-10 Stretch "Test Model" observations

[Barkdog]

First of all, THANK YOU for sharing. And thanks to Sal for pursuing this. I will respond further using simple math...

Stretch in G-10 + Deeper Choil + Brown + laser like cutting ability = WIN WIN WIN WIN.

I would buy one, immediately. Wow... super cool.

[Titomake]

Hello.

Stretch is one of my favorites and this new version looks awesome. Thanks you for this review and nice pics.

Regards.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

Have a question Paul. I have always found that my one issue with the Stretch is the narrow part of the handle is a bit too narrow. It's a little hard to tell but has there been any change there? I guess the depth, between the choil and the palm swell...

Thanks

[The Deacon]

Thank you Paul, exactly the pic I was hoping for. I'll have to check the other thread for this answer, but they were intending on releasing this as a G10 version as well as shifting the FRN molds (moulds?), right? Showing this to us without that possibility would just be cruel! :)

That's the impression I got from Sal's comments in the other thread. FRN handles may be cheaper to produce in large quantities, but the expense involved in modifying or replacing a mold makes it much cheaper to test changes on the "slab scales with full liners" platform first.

Have a question Paul. I have always found that my one issue with the Stretch is the narrow part of the handle is a bit too narrow. It's a little hard to tell but has there been any change there? I guess the depth, between the choil and the palm swell...

Thanks

If I'm understanding you correctly, it's a bit wider on the test model. The width at the narrowest point between the choil and the palm swell measures .927" on the test model and .868" on the CF, FRN, and NGF versions. For those wonder about the width at the fattest part of the palm swell, it 's 1.235" on the test model, 1.156" on the current ones. And for those interested in the distance "between the horns" created by the choil and the butt, it is 3.898" as opposed to 3.627" on the current Stretch.

[arty]

The addition of a G10 handle is nice, but I prefer the older Stretch blade. For my wants (fishing), the slightly narrower blade works better, along with the reduced choil. If I wanted the knife for land critters, the new blade shape might be a real improvement.
I would really need to see how the handle fits my hand to know. The old Stretch has fantastic ergonomics, and fits on a good size pocket.
I usually carry smaller knives, much smaller knives. The Stretch is the sort of knife that gets used on special occasions, like out at the beach.

[timlara]

Thanks, Paul! (And Sal!)

I am very curious to handle this model as the changes *look* and *seem* like they would be improvements to me, but you can never really know until the knife is in hand. It seems like this could very well be a case where the changes are "better" for half the people and "not as good" for the rest. I suppose the key is trying to get that "better" number as high above 50% as possible. Not an easy job...I'm glad it's Sal doing it and not me! :D

p.s. -- One other thing I was wondering: Is the new model going to get the new N5 lock/pivot improvements as well? Not that there's anything *wrong* with the lock on my current Stretch...I just like the N5 version a little better.

[Jazz]

I like the color, the handle shape tweaking, the choil looks perfect, and the wider blade actually looks nicer. I want one just like that. Thanks, Sal and Paul.

[The Deacon]

Have to say that it's growing on me, mainly because it has become more natural for me to use. Think the problem was, I was using the curve at that back of the backstrap to position the knife in my hand, same as I do with the current ones, and the longer handle put my thumb too far back to work the Spyderhole smoothly. Finally realized that wasn't working well and started placing my hand a bit further forward.

Still wonder why the longer handle was needed, unless there are a significant number of folks who feel the current version is too cramped.

Thanks, Paul! (And Sal!)

I am very curious to handle this model as the changes *look* and *seem* like they would be improvements to me, but you can never really know until the knife is in hand. It seems like this could very well be a case where the changes are "better" for half the people and "not as good" for the rest. I suppose the key is trying to get that "better" number as high above 50% as possible. Not an easy job...I'm glad it's Sal doing it and not me! :D

p.s. -- One other thing I was wondering: Is the new model going to get the new N5 lock/pivot improvements as well? Not that there's anything *wrong* with the lock on my current Stretch...I just like the N5 version a little better.

True. Heck there are still folks who'd have Spyderco bring back the integral clip FRN models and others who'd prefer them to bring back the Delica and Endura III's.

As far as lock revisions, only Sal can answer that. What I can say with certainty is that this one locks up tighter than the proverbial waterfowl's butt. Not even the slightest a trace of midlock slippage when applying pressure to cut.

[D1omedes]

Thanks for the pictures and impressions, Paul. I've been holding off on picking up a Stretch because of this new revision that is incoming. I did, however, gift a Stretch to my brother-in-law and he loves it. Since I'm a Caly fan, first and foremost, I believe the new choil will feel better in my hand.

Since you are a fan of VG10 Paul, do you prefer ZDP? I usually prefer stainless but am not sure if I can hold out for the FRN version.

[ManixFan]

H
Still wonder why the longer handle was needed, unless there are a significant number of folks who feel the current version is too cramped.

I am a decent sized guy but not what i would call "huge". I am 6'2" and about 255lbs but would pass for about 220 as I still have some muscle buried under the flab that starting accumulating when I stopped training. When I was in fighting shape at about 5-7% bodyfat, my weight would swing between 195 and 210 and chest size would swing between 48" - 50" depending on whether I was hitting the weights hard or not. My glove size is an XL but mainly because of my finger length rather than breadth. So that would give you a sense of my physical size.

As a Civil Engineer I spent the early part of my career supervising construction sites and have seen a lot a guys who actually work with their hands and who have huge massive fingers that while perhaps might not be as long as mine in length would dwarf mine in thickness and palm meatiness.

I fit onto the current Stretch as it is but I find that when I hold it in a forward sabre style grip either with my thumb or especially my finger (for eating at the table, i.e., cutting into steak) on the jimping that I find my pinky finger becomes cramped up against the curve of the scales at the butt end. With a tiny bit more length and the apparent increase in the radius of the curve near the butt of the new Stretch I am thinking that it would be just about perfect for me now.

As I said previously, I have seen a lot of working men with much more beefy palms and fingers than mine and am surprised that more people haven't found the handle length the one little drawback of the current Stretch. While is very ergonomic in shape the extra handle length will be much appreciated by those that will benefit from it and it really shouldn't take anything away from those who don't. I am thinking that the extra length would also be appreciated by anyone who is using their new Stretch 3 with gloves on as well.

After re-reading this post and thinking of all the forumites with huge post counts; I am wondering if with the new Forum development, that along with total posts, a total word count (5 or 6 letter average) might also be tracked. I have on occasion been accused of being a little wordy.....but I like to think of it as either "descriptive" or "thorough". It might be fun to track posts, word counts and average words per post. Just a thought :D

[DougC-3]

Thanks a lot for all the information and photos, Paul.

I've felt a little cramped with the current model and would also like a little more room for the leading edge of my index finger--the forefinger accommodation on the Manix handle is perfect for me. My fingers are probably average size, but my palms are over 4 inches wide, so I think the small amount of extra length and the little bit of straightening of the curved tip of the butt will make it more comfortable for me. I'm looking forward to trying out my first non FRN Stretch model.

[PayneTrain]

The handle is indeed thinner than the FRN. I'm definitely in for one! Though I personally would like the choil moved back to reclaim some cutting edge. If anything, more edge is what the Stretch needs in my opinion. My hands would accommodate that quite well.

[Jazz]

Bit longer handle is good for all. Bit shorter is not. :)

[FCM415]

I'm hoping that Sal goes for the CF version also at release like he is considering. If not I'll Rit dye the brown.

[Ned]

My only ZDP knife right now is my Manbug, I'm a huge fan of that little knife I have re-beveled the edge to ~12DPS let me tell you, it is very impressive. It holds an edge better than anything else I've ever used. So I have been looking to get a larger blade In ZDP and nearly bought a stretch. (actually I did buy the stretch and later returned it for a Ti-Millie that afternoon) Ever since then I have had the intention of picking up a ZDP Stretch; this knife will likely become my long term edc favorite, I can hardly wait for it's release.

[ManixFan]

Looking at the CF Stretch in the comparisons I am wondering what do you call that kind of CF? It isn't "buffed", it isn't "Peel Ply" as on the new Manix 2 XL S90V version. Is it Peel Ply with a different pattern? Or is there a specific name for that type of CF or is it just a "textured" CF?

I think that I like the Peel Ply the best of the solid CF but I suppose that it can be tough on your pants pocket material. The coloured CF laminate over G10 on the Blue Weave Domino is probably my favourite overall in appearance but a Peel Ply like on the Manix 2 XL S90V would also look amazing in a darker blue.

Has anyone ever tried to Rit dye Peel Ply CF scales before? Is it possible to get decent results or any results at all? The smoke grey is pretty nice as it is and I wouldn't want to screw that up if the blue didn't take properly on the peel ply.

With respect to the colour of the brown of the Stretch it looks darker than the Southard Brown. Does anyone know if a brown as dark as this could be dyed to a dark blue or would my only option be black? If black is my only option than I might just have to make this knife my first custom scaled Spyderco since a new Stretch deserves a nicer colour than a black.....unless it is black Nishijin.

Speaking of Nishijin - are there any other colours available besides black and blue or is this a custom created material that has only been made in blue and black so far? If it is available, I would be tempted to re-scale the new G10 Stretch in dark green Nishijin or maybe even a bronze colour Nishijin. Yeah, yeah, I know bronze is close to the colour brown - which I really don't dislike as a colour - it is just that brown G10 is so bland and boring looking to my eyes. A bronze Nishijin would look kind of metallic except with the additional 3D depth and sparkle of Nishijin and would be an awesome "brown" version scale - although I still think that I would prefer black or perhaps dark green if it is available for sale somewhere on this planet. It would be hard to say until you see a sample.

If I am too lazy to switch out the scales right away and a CF sprint version ends up not materializing then I guess that the brown of the prototype Stretch is a lot better than that really light coloured ugly yellowish brown that I originally thought it would be.

But as for the changes in the handle as well as the choil modifications, I think that this Stretch will be a masterpiece and one of the best and quickest selling Spyderco Sprints ever. If a slabbed version (either G10 or CF) doesn't remain on the market as regular production like the Caly series then hopefully enough are produced in the Sprint version to satisfy the demand by Spyderco fans without an epic flipping fiasco occurring on the secondary "Bay" market.

[The Deacon]

Looking at the CF Stretch in the comparisons I am wondering what do you call that kind of CF? It isn't "buffed", it isn't "Peel Ply" as on the new Manix 2 XL S90V version. Is it Peel Ply with a different pattern? Or is there a specific name for that type of CF or is it just a "textured" CF?

I think that I like the Peel Ply the best of the solid CF but I suppose that it can be tough on your pants pocket material. The coloured CF laminate over G10 on the Blue Weave Domino is probably my favourite overall in appearance but a Peel Ply like on the Manix 2 XL S90V would also look amazing in a darker blue.

Has anyone ever tried to Rit dye Peel Ply CF scales before? Is it possible to get decent results or any results at all? The smoke grey is pretty nice as it is and I wouldn't want to screw that up if the blue didn't take properly on the peel ply.

With respect to the colour of the brown of the Stretch it looks darker than the Southard Brown. Does anyone know if a brown as dark as this could be dyed to a dark blue or would my only option be black? If black is my only option than I might just have to make this knife my first custom scaled Spyderco since a new Stretch deserves a nicer colour than a black.....unless it is black Nishijin.

Speaking of Nishijin - are there any other colours available besides black and blue or is this a custom created material that has only been made in blue and black so far? If it is available, I would be tempted to re-scale the new G10 Stretch in dark green Nishijin or maybe even a bronze colour Nishijin. Yeah, yeah, I know bronze is close to the colour brown - which I really don't dislike as a colour - it is just that brown G10 is so bland and boring looking to my eyes. A bronze Nishijin would look kind of metallic except with the additional 3D depth and sparkle of Nishijin and would be an awesome "brown" version scale - although I still think that I would prefer black or perhaps dark green if it is available for sale somewhere on this planet. It would be hard to say until you see a sample.

If I am too lazy to switch out the scales right away and a CF sprint version ends up not materializing then I guess that the brown of the prototype Stretch is a lot better than that really light coloured ugly yellowish brown that I originally thought it would be.

But as for the changes in the handle as well as the choil modifications, I think that this Stretch will be a masterpiece and one of the best and quickest selling Spyderco Sprints ever. If a slabbed version (either G10 or CF) doesn't remain on the market as regular production like the Caly series then hopefully enough are produced in the Sprint version to satisfy the demand by Spyderco fans without an epic flipping fiasco occurring on the secondary "Bay" market.

The CF Stretch in my photos is a "stock" C90CF and the CF is peel-ply. It has a different pattern from the peel-ply CF used on US models, herringbone vs checkerboard. It is also not quite as aggressively textured as the US stuff, but more aggressively textured than peel ply G-10.

I don't own a Southard, so I can't comment on their relative colors. Someone who has the Calypso Sprint or XHP FRN Native might be able to say. Not sure how RIT would work on it, or on peel-ply CF.

To be honest, although I don't believe the Stretch requires a textured handle for grip, my lignum vitae and cocobolo ones are fine without it, I do find he Nishijin glass to be a bit too slick for comfort. The good news is that it will be all screw construction, with full liners and a steel backspacer, so replacing the scales, or just smoothing and polishing them should be relatively easy and inexpensive.

No idea what Sal's marketing plans are, but he's said he plans to modify the FRN versions if the G-10 version is well accepted, so I'm guessing that, like the CF version, the G-10 version will be around for a bit to gauge interest before they decide whether or not to invest in new molds. To me, that means more than a Sprint.

[ManixFan]

To be honest, although I don't believe the Stretch requires a textured handle for grip, my lignum vitae and cocobolo ones are fine without it, I do find he Nishijin glass to be a bit too slick for comfort. The good news is that it will be all screw construction, with full liners and a steel backspacer, so replacing the scales, or just smoothing and polishing them should be relatively easy and inexpensive.

Yeah, the Nishijin is beautiful to look at but it is a bit slick. I also have the Nishijin R and with that knife the choil is pretty deep letting you sink your finger in to help with the grip. But this feature does have its limitations and there is no accounting for intentional boneheaded moves as I found out when I decided to test this feature after enjoying a few beverages. I put the Nishijin R in my hand in a choked up grip and put forward pressure into the choil. It performed admirably but the Nishijin is still a little slick and my hands sweaty so when I finished "my test" and relaxed my hand I didn't realize that I still had a little forward pressure on the handle and my hand slipped forward. I felt that unmistakable cold sensation of steel breaking flesh and was almost afraid to look. I got VERY LUCKY when I found that the cut was actually less than a deep papercut and a much cleaner cut as well. It oozed blood but in a different fashion than a papercut. But it still stung like a son of a **** when I ran a styptic pencil over it trying to stop the very slow ooze. Strangest cut I've had in my life.....but I'm not complaining because the blade could easily have cut to the bone. I think that the small tight radius of the choil itself pushed my finger up and away from the blade as my hand slipped forward.

I may be wrong but I thought that the G10 and possible CF were to be sprint runs before going to FRN? It would be nice to have the potential CF knife stick around as a higher cost alternative production knife to the FRN versions. That way you can cater to both the people who want a great lighter weight, nested liner FRN'y type knife as well as those who want a heavier steel liner backed more upscale gentlemen version to carry. But I guess quite a bit depends on how well the slabbed versions are received.

Oh yeah, thanks for the clarification on the CF Stretch. I don't have one and as a newer collector everything that I've seen described as Peel Ply has always been the checkerboard style. I was tempted to pick one up but then heard about the original "bombshell" which described the new Stretch as being CF - so I held off on it and also because it is pretty pricey on the secondary market and after the announcement of the upcoming Stretch 3 with ZDP the only thing that I was considering it for after that would be to swap in the Superblue blade like I've seen done elsewhere on the internet (initially at Nemoknifereviews then also through Jackknifeh's posting). That is a pretty sweet "FrankenSpydie" .....if there are any afi's out there with a CF Stretch with a broken or crapped out blade that still has the CF handle in excellent shape then please PM me and we might have a mutually beneficial conversation. If that invitation is crossing the line then if any admin staff would let me know then I'll edit this post to remove my reference to having that "conversation".

Also, Paul - thanks for taking the time to put together such a well written review with great photo's as well as responding to the questions of a newbie collector. I think I stumbled across your storage setup in another thread post about how people store their knives and all I can say is "unbelievable!". I am only at about 3/4 of the way through a large Spyderpac and after I get a few more current offerings as well as the new ones that I want that were shown at the Amsterdam meet only then would I need to buy another Spyderpac (or store my purely collectible non-users elsewhere). But your curio cabinet setup is a couple orders of magnitude higher into "knife heaven". Completely awesome setup! My most admiring regards.....Steve

[shunsui]

+1 Great review. Looks like the Strech is getting the Para-Military 2 treatment. Like ManixFan, I didn't like the feel of the Strech in hand. The changes look spot on. Not a big fan of the blade shape, but I'll check this one out.

[ManixFan]

+1 Great review. Looks like the Strech is getting the Para-Military 2 treatment. Like ManixFan, I didn't like the feel of the Strech in hand. The changes look spot on. Not a big fan of the blade shape, but I'll check this one out.

I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression Shunsui. Sometimes my nitpicking can sound like an overly harsh criticism. I really do like the feel of the current Stretch in hand or I wouldn't already own three versions of them (ZDP BRG, Super Blue & Blue Nishijin Damascus) and also been seriously considering the current CF version prior to hearing of the new Stretch 3 release.

It does feel nice in hand (as is) but in certain hand positions what initially felt very ergonomic in other positions becomes not very comfortable in others. I can see how this little shortcoming (pun intended) could put some people like yourself off on the handle feel. But with the extra handle length and the increase of the radius at the butt of the knife (lessened curvature of the handle curve out to the tip of the handle butt) I am thinking that the new handle configuration will correct this issue and attract those who previously couldn't get a liking to the feel of the previous handle.

I originally wasn't a fan of the blade shape (aesthetically speaking) but after using it I have found it to be incredibly functional and the very narrowness of it would also increase the usefulness of it in a SD role despite the 3.5" blade. With the slight increase in blade breadth and the FFG perhaps the slicing ability (already scalpel like) might improve a touch and yet it doesn't appear to have been widened to the point where it may detract from its usefulness in a SD role.

Next time you pick up a Stretch try choking up into the choil, which with the new design will feel that much more comfortable and secure, and extend your thumb up and over the hump of the opener to lay against the spine of the blade. Play with this grip until you feel the curvature of your thumb naturally lock into the curvature of the blade. Now try to imagine the amount of safely directed force that you can exert on the blade and blade tip while in this position to carve into dense tough plastic materials or even into a softwood. This exercise should give you a little more insight into the masterpiece of blade geometry that is the Stretch. Until you've actually used it in this position for cutting into dense materials you won't or can't have an appreciation for the design of the blade shape's usefulness. Also, when in this choked up position the current handle length is entirely adequate to the grip of even someone with very large hands I would imagine.

The slight lengthening of the handle along with the change in radius near the butt of the handle will open up this great knife to being incredibly ergonomic even for people with larger hands. This is a very exciting modification for me and I can't wait to try it out for myself. When you check out the new handle Shunsui, give the grip that I've described above a shot when you are handling the knife and I hope that you will see what I mean.