Kahr Delica, I don't get it
I would like a black handled Salt 1 with a similar mod, I really like the larger opening hole, grind off half inch of blade, jimping, perhaps an acid stonewash; that would be an excellent project.
:spyder: C101PBL2, C54GPBN, C154PBK, MGREP, JGGYP, C75P3, C36TIP, C113GPGY, C127GPOR, C85GPBL, C11SBK, C10SBK, C11TR, C10TR, C28S (Wharncliffe mod), C11TIPD, C12GS, FB15P, C110GPBL, C85GP2, C141CFP, FB14P3Z, C123GPBL, C88PYL, KO4PBK, C105BMP
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places...Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God." Ephesians 6:12-13
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places...Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God." Ephesians 6:12-13
I got it.. Came yesterday amd am liking it!! Nice stout blade for garage stuff.. Used it to cut open some blister pack and cut up some boxes..
NGK is awesome to deal with.. And they sent a little surprise too.. THANKS NGK!! John
NGK is awesome to deal with.. And they sent a little surprise too.. THANKS NGK!! John
Not all who wander are lost!!!
Of all the paths you take in life...
Make sure some of them are Dirt!!!
Of all the paths you take in life...
Make sure some of them are Dirt!!!
- fifthprofession47
- Member
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Omaha, Nebraska USA
I picked one of the Kahr Delicas up today for $65 over at New Graham Knives.
"One is none and two is one"
Martial Blade Concepts - Certified Instructor
http://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/
Martial Blade Concepts - Certified Instructor
http://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/
If I had a backup super blue Endura, I would be tempted to make a super blue copy of the Jandura. It would be a pretty cool knife.
K-390 on hand: Mule Team 17, Police 4 G-10, Endela (burlap micarta), Endela backup, Endura (canvas micarta), Straight Stretch (now blade-swapped with G-10 Stretch), Delica Wharncliffe, Dragonfly Wharncliffe, & Dragonfly Wharncliffe shorty mod
Note to self: Less is more.
Note to self: Less is more.
- Liquid Cobra
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- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:38 pm
- Location: British Columbia, CANADA
My tan Kahr Arms Delica arrived today and it is very nice. The stonewash is everywhere, which I actually like. It is on the blade, the clip and all the hardware. I have a bit of up and down blade play but thats no big deal. The tan colour is perfect, I really wish we would see more of this colour from Spyderco. I like my knives black, and I like them tan!..and orange, and green, and blue etc lol. I'm not much for writing so here are some quick comparison shots with my orange delica.
Lock bar is stonewashed, attention to detail!
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Lock bar is stonewashed, attention to detail!
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Most recently acquired: Military 2, Paramilitary 2 Tanto x2, YoJUMBO, Swayback, Siren, DLC Yojimbo 2, Native Chief, Shaman S90V, Para 3 LW, Ikuchi, UKPK, Smock, SUBVERT, Amalgam, Para 3 CTS-XHP, Kapara, Paramilitary 2 M390
Grail Paramilitary 2 M390 X 2! ACHIEVED!!
For more of my pictures see my Instagram account.
@liquid_cobra
Grail Paramilitary 2 M390 X 2! ACHIEVED!!
For more of my pictures see my Instagram account.
@liquid_cobra
- Liquid Cobra
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- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:38 pm
- Location: British Columbia, CANADA
It's really weird lol. Really, really weird. I understand MJ's reasoning for excluding it and I don't mind that it's not there, but it certainly feels like I would have less control during heavy cutting. But, I haven't cut a thing with it yet so maybe I shouldn't say. It does look cleaner in my opinion.xceptnl wrote:Thanks for the comparisons Donovan. How are you liking the lack of jimping?
Most recently acquired: Military 2, Paramilitary 2 Tanto x2, YoJUMBO, Swayback, Siren, DLC Yojimbo 2, Native Chief, Shaman S90V, Para 3 LW, Ikuchi, UKPK, Smock, SUBVERT, Amalgam, Para 3 CTS-XHP, Kapara, Paramilitary 2 M390
Grail Paramilitary 2 M390 X 2! ACHIEVED!!
For more of my pictures see my Instagram account.
@liquid_cobra
Grail Paramilitary 2 M390 X 2! ACHIEVED!!
For more of my pictures see my Instagram account.
@liquid_cobra
Re:
Michael Janich wrote:Thanks to everyone for your discussion of the Kahr Delica4. If you're really interested in "getting it," it helps to understand the evolution of the design, the reasoning behind it, and the economics of multi-step distribution of a product.
The original inspiration for the knife came from one of my long-time MBC students, who works for a government agency in a federal building in D.C. As a federal employee, he is allowed to carry a folding knife with a blade no longer than 2.5 inches. After developing a sound set of MBC skills, he asked me which knife/knives I would recommend to fit that need. I took a hard look at all the knives that had 2.5-inch or less blades and did some live-blade MBC-style cutting with them. The problem was that their handles were to short to allow a decent combative grip and managing impact shock was scary. Also, since we always endeavor to train with what we carry, the fact that trainer versions were not commercially available was a negative.
When I developed the original Yojimbo almost 15 years ago, I purposely had a long handle (to fill the hand and for impact-weapon potential) and a short blade (3-inch--the blade length allowed by the FAA on aircraft during heightened security alerts during the pre-9/11 era). That concept wasn't new and is regularly seen on box cutters, razor knives, carving knives, scalpels, and many other tools. If you want to cut with maximum power and control, you need enough handle to grip securely. As such, comparing the Kahr Delica to any 2.5-inch-bladed folder with a short handle is missing the point.
After giving it some thought, I bought a Delica, fired up the belt grinder, and made my student a "snubby" Delica. Since the grinder was running, I also removed the jimping, which tempts people to brave their thumbs on the rear portion of the hump in a Saber grip. This not only weakens your grip, but is a recipe for pain if you make hard contact on a thrust. For casual utility work, jimping is fine. For defensive use, it's like sharp corners and edges on a handgun--it doesn't belong.
I sent the modified Delica to my student and he absolutely loved it. He could carry it legally at work and could train with a Delica trainer to ensure that his skills matched his tool of choice. In fact, his co-workers loved it too--primarily because it offered a full-sized handle on legal-to-carry blade. Soon, I was grinding more knives for them.
A couple of years later, I taught a class in New Hampshire that included a number of students who work in Boston, which has a municipal law that establishes a 2.5-inch blade length limit. The same question came up, so I pulled up a photo of the bobbed Delicas on my laptop and quickly had a sign-up sheet for about a dozen custom-ground knives.
A few months after that, I taught in Chicago. Same stupid law, same stupid blade length, same logical question, same practical answer. Once again, I had a sign-up sheet and had to buy more grinder belts.
The concept of the knife was valid and well received by people who trained in MBC and lived in areas where blade length was severely restricted.
The original idea for the Kahr knife started with Marc Galli, a Kahr Regional Sales Manager and another long-time MBC student. Kahr had been doing the standard branded-knife thing--take a stock product, laser engrave the logo, and call it good. Thanks to Marc's passion for knives and Kahr's desire to go beyond the standard industry approach, they asked me if it would be possible to do a truly unique knife that was exclusive to Kahr. We met at the SHOT show and kicked around a number of ideas before I mentioned the bobbed Delica story. Since Kahr's headquarters is not far from Boston, they immediately "got it." And since Kahr specializes in small, easy-to-carry personal defense tools, they felt the bobbed Delica was a perfect complement to the spirit of their core product line.
When I met with Justin Moon, the founder of the company, he mentioned that he would also like the knives to blend unobtrusively with the most common colors of clothing and asked about the possibility of colored handles. Specifically, he wanted black, khaki, and denim blue--ideally with matching clips and screws. Since a denim-colored handle was one of the original (but unrealized) design features of the first Yojimbo, I was stoked at the concept and Justin's insights. Sadly, our Japanese manufacturer couldn't effectively color match the clips and screws with any coating that offered long-wearing durability, so the "fall-back" option was a dull, non-reflective gray stonewash finish.
In case you're wondering how the Kahr Delica actually performs in cutting, I answered that question very definitively a couple of weekends ago at a seminar I taught in Costa Mesa, CA. To illustrate the cutting power of a small knife and the need to understand the actual destructive power of your carry blade, I used a Kahr Delica on a typical pork man target. It easily cut to the "bone," and confirmed that the Kahr Delica will do everything we need it to do as an effective personal defense tool for MBC-style tactics.
With regard to pricing, it's a matter of simple manufacturing economics. Manufacturers make stuff. They then have several options:
1. They can sell a bunch of product to distributors, ensuring that the margins on that sale allow them (the manufacturer) to profit enough to be a viable business. The distributors then sell to dealers, raising the price and taking a margin in the process.
2. The manufacturer can sell smaller quantities directly to dealers (who then sell to consumers, raising the price and taking a margin in the process).
3. The manufacturer can sell directly to consumers.
Spyderco does all three and tries extremely hard to respect the often competing dynamics they each require.
As a manufacturer, Kahr follows a similar set of dynamics for the products they make. However, when they purchase a product from another manufacturer (i.e. Spyderco), their cost of goods is automatically higher. Functionally, they have become a "master distributor" and added another tier to the structure.
In the days before the internet, this process worked well because all the levels in the hierarchy had substantial overhead. That overhead prevented them from taking tiny profit margins because they couldn't afford to. Today, the barrier of entry to do business is much lower. Online, a guy with a web site shipping product out of his basement can appear just as legit as a retail store with dozens of employees. The basement guy can sell at deep discounts and make tiny margins because his overhead is next to nothing. Larger business that provide better selection and better customer service have to pay for those costs somehow, so their margins--and their prices--are higher.
Kahr specifically wanted to hit a $100 MSRP on their knives to keep them affordable. That puts their retail price below that of a standard Delica; however, because they are functionally a master distributor, not a manufacturer, the dynamics of determining the ultimate "street price" will be different. Spyderco will not be selling these knives directly, so the sales "process" to the public, as well as the cascading process of determining the price at each tier, begins with Kahr.
I hope this explanation helps you understand both the intent and the pricing dynamics of these knives more clearly. Spyderco is honored that Kahr chose to work with us on this project and respect their decision to make truly unique branded knives rather than stock products engraved with a logo. For Delica fans, it also provides unique, collectible variants of one of Spyderco's most popular designs. For me, the denim version finally satisfies my longstanding quest for a jean-camouflaged handle. That's why it's my new left-side carry knife...
Stay safe,
Mike
Stay safe,
Mike
So you you collaborated with Spyderco and Khar arms so that your students could stab people with a Delica 4 in secure federal buildings in major cities. What are you, some kind of douchebag?
- bearfacedkiller
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Re: Kahr Delica, I don't get it
Say what? :eek:
Oh yeah, welcome to the forum. :rolleyes:
What the ...
Oh yeah, welcome to the forum. :rolleyes:
What the ...
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
- SpyderNut
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Re: Kahr Delica, I don't get it
:confused: ...I think I'm missing something. Starik, I think there has been a misunderstanding regarding Michael's design. Also, we refrain from using such inflamatory comments on the forum.
:spyder: -Michael
"...as I said before, 'the edge is a wondrous thing', [but] in all of it's qualities, it is still a ghost." - sal
"...as I said before, 'the edge is a wondrous thing', [but] in all of it's qualities, it is still a ghost." - sal
Re: Kahr Delica, I don't get it
What's the deal with new members resurrecting old threads and posting things that violate the rules? I mean we were all new once but please wipe the mud off your shoes before you enter our house. Thanks.
Spydergirl88
3 Nats, 1 Chap, 1 Sham, 1 Urb
3 Nats, 1 Chap, 1 Sham, 1 Urb