Surfingringo wrote:I'm pretty sure the implication was that this would be the "best bet" if you found yourself in the unfortunate situation of having nothing but a knife, not that a knife would be your best bet in this situation. Either way, I'm stepping out of this one as these threads seem to always get weird. Y'all enjoy. :)
For knife only, that would probably be "Best Bet." Protect the face and throat with the off-hand. No argument here.
Sometimes what we mean to say doesn't always translate well online. :)
Years ago, I was into working dogs and their training, and this shaped my thoughts on this subject.
First line of defense is body langage and posture. Strong but not aggressive, give the dog an out but don't be prey. Running is always a no no, this tiggers the prey instinct of the dog. Always face them, speak firmly. If they do bite, arm is a good choice. More than one dog is a big issue. They will take you down like always have. Attack to the back of leg takes you down, then the pack finishes you off.
Also learn to read dog body language, this helps you to understand what you are dealing with.
Impact tools (like aforementioned baton), pepper spray, and maybe a firearm are good choices. Honestly a knife is about two rungs below a bag of cotton candy when it comes to defense against dogs IMHO. Yes you can use it, but not going to be my first choice, and if you are you are in a bad situation. My point is, don't rely on it for your first line of defense.
Also saw one of those "It happened in the ER" shows a few years ago where I guy almost died from wounds he got from a dog attack. He killed the dog with a knife, but he was using a reverse grip and when he missed the dog, he stabbed himself...
Coyotes for the most part of fearful of humans, our small pets are the most at risk. No mountain lions are another story...
Given the average person is unable to defend himself/herself adequately from a mid-size inebriated young adult I would say...a really big knife and a pack of guardian angels.
My cousin, who happens to be a retired judge, was riding his Schwinn beach cruiser with his wife in his quiet little hometown here in N. Wyoming. He was attacked by a pair of dogs, a very large German shepherd mix I believe and another dog. He was nearly killed; he spent weeks in the hospital and has had to undergo PT very a very long time. He was not armed with anything and in my opinion, he did not realize the gravity of the situation until he was pulled off his bike and mauled. Just by being situationally aware and taking a more aggressive posture with those dogs may have made a big difference. With those measures and a sharp capable knife and the knowledge of its use would have (in my opinion) changed that outcome dramatically.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places...Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God." Ephesians 6:12-13
JBE wrote:Best bet? Why risk a bite that could potentially sever the brachial or radial arteries instead of something that allows you to keep your distance? Remember, the OP also asked about wild dogs and coyotes...there's a high risk of rabies that comes with those bites.
But how much distance can you keep with a knife? Pepper spray is better...firearm is far better...
JBE wrote:Best bet? Why risk a bite that could potentially sever the brachial or radial arteries instead of something that allows you to keep your distance? Remember, the OP also asked about wild dogs and coyotes...there's a high risk of rabies that comes with those bites.
Granted it isn't a pretty thought, but an animal like a pit bull that likes to go for the throat, it's much better to get bit in the arm than in the throat or face and then you get treatment and/or rabies shots later. Give them an arm to bite onto and then you go for the throat. Both outcomes are (to me) favorable over getting mauled to death or getting your face ripped off. Otherwise, reach is going to be your best friend, so the bigger/longer the blade, the better especially when it comes to stabbing and hoping you inflict a killing blow. Unfortunately, many animals could probably withstand a stab wound and still hurt you quite a bit before they die unless you're lucky enough to hit something major. Consider how far a deer can run after being shot or hit with an arrow, and then imagine that's a vicious rabies infected dog that just realized it has to fight for it's life. The best you can really hope for is to hurt them enough that they stop the attack and run away. I mean, if you're really getting attacked by a dog, seriously attacked, you're GOING to get bit...I'd take my chances and choose where I get bit in an effort to give myself a counter strike advantage.
A while back the guy who's son was mauled by a mountain lion used his Caly 3 (or 3.5 don't remember) and stabbed the cat while it had his son's head in its mouth and that was enough that it let go and ran away. I don't remember if they ever found the cat but it left a blood trail from what I remember reading. My experience with wild animals is that when you inflict pain, that fight or flight reflex is going to happen, and if they decide to fight then you're in for it in a big way. Even a house cat can screw you up if it's a fight to the death.
Oh, I've also done a small amount of training with police dogs....as the dummy lol. I had a cousin growing up who breed and trained German Shepherd police dogs, and when he needed someone to wear the bite sleeve, I got the job because I was big enough to hold my own against the bigger males. I can tell you this much...even a small female dog at full run attacking your forearm packs a major punch...BUT, unless you're a very small person or you get caught off guard, I do think you stand a good chance of defending yourself against a single dog if you let them bite first. I had the luxury of not feeling pain since I had the sleeve on, but there was still a lot of adrenaline, and it was a very stressful situation because the dogs didn't know they were just training, they were going for the kill (or rather to stop the target). I would much rather defend myself with a knife against a dog vs a human.
It happened to me once. In a fishing trip in BC at the end of the Fall, four years ago, while I was making some fire and left my loaded 30-06 rifle to my wife at the tent.
Suddenly I saw a medium sized wolf rambling very close to my boat where I had my fish. Close enough to realize that it would come for it.
Curiously (and luckily) it was alone. When I saw it I only had my knife and my Whistle Creek cane with me, since I left my backup .357 on the boat.
Just a second after that the wolf jumped over me. I just took my cane like a baseball bat and hit it in the head very fast and really hard. The canine went down, obviously injured and I hit again twice in the head, even strongly. After that I took my lovely Puukko and finished it by stabbing its neck. :cool: I was really lucky. I've been practicing Martial Arts since I was 7 years old and my reflexes are really good. But again, I was really lucky. If there were 2 o more wolves the situation would've been entirely different.
Never, not even once, I thought about using my knife as my first choice to defend me against the wolf. My Whistle Creek cane made the day, the week and maybe the entire rest of my life since then. :)
Basically in the event of a dog attack, your best bet is to allow them to bite your off hand forearm, then stab them with anything you're carrying. I've seen potentially deadly pit bull attacks ended this way, and though the person suffered bite wounds on their arm, they didn't get mauled to death.
This is exactly what they taught us to do in ccw class.
A wolf or a large rabid dog would definitely be a worry. A Coyote by itself isn't going to be much of a problem for a fully grown adult even without a knife (Most Coyotes are about 30 pounds), and it would probably be possible to kick it in the head quite hard as it was charging at you. You might get bit, but it probably wouldn't be life threatening. A pack of Coyotes would be a different story. I live and grew up on an acreage and we see Coyotes all the time (We even had one on our deck once when the dog was sleeping inside on that particular night). About 10 years ago we had 2 dogs (One 80 pound purebread German Shepherd, and one 100 pound Shepherd/Rottweiler cross), and I personally watched them chase away 15-20 Coyotes without incurring so much as a scratch. I'd wager my current dog (90 pound purebread German Shepherd that's a LOT stronger than most German Shepherds of similar weight) would be more than a match for a half dozen Coyotes.
phillipsted wrote:Personally, when I'm on a walk in areas where I know there will be the potential for aggressive dogs or coyotes, I carry my collapsible 24" ASP baton in a belt sheath. It has prevented a potentially serious dog attack on my wife and I once before. That dog will never hurt anyone again. Ever.
We have plenty aggressive strays, coyotes, and coydogs (hybrids) where we live. I always take a 40" walking stick when I go for a walk.
And pepper spray. And a loud thing.
There is also a 3-3.5 inch blade in my pocket, but you have to get too close for that...
Best thing, good handgun, next big stick, then pepper spray ( some dogs are relatively unaffected by it ). If you have to use a knife, you're probably gonna get bit up some.
If there are problems in your area with carrying a walking stick, go to a feed store and get a stock cane and put a nice rubber tip on it. It's a crook top cane, but most robust. And limp a bit.
That 24" ASP sounds like a wonderful thing, I wish I could carry one, but the legals in my state on that are as bad as a firearm. Darn.
Anyway, there's my 5 cents worth. (Inflation, you know!)
1) firearm where possible. No mini gun like NAA 22 revolver, or derringer. A real firearm. Shotgun or carbine hopefully then a pistol.
2) pepper spray
3) stick/cane.impact device
4) machete
5) knife
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
All I did was color the tuft of hair that kind of stands up. :)
The Mastiff wrote:1) firearm where possible. No mini gun like NAA 22 revolver, or derringer. A real firearm. Shotgun or carbine hopefully then a pistol.
2) pepper spray
3) stick/cane.impact device
4) machete
5) knife
Yes, but I'd take the cane or stick before the pepper spray probably.
