Dear Spyderco, Mr Glesser & Mr Glesser,

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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jeru
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Dear Spyderco, Mr Glesser & Mr Glesser,

Postby jeru » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:45 pm

Dear Spyderco, Mr Glesser & Mr Glesser,

I am very worried and scared. Spyderco is my favorite production company and the Spyderco Military is my favorite GOAT production EDC. Zero Tolerance was my second favorite production company. I said "was". Because I have this problem, that I strictly carry folders tip-down. The nice thing about Spyderco and ZT was, that they made awesome liner- and frame-locks with a four-way swappable pocket-clip. But not anymore. As of last couple of years, almost all the awesome collabs and limited editions of ZT come strictly tip-up. Suddenly ZT isn't bothered anymore to just drill some extra holes. So no new ZT's for me anymore unfortunately :( And now, I am getting afraid. Afraid for even more frustration and disappointment. Because I saw the awesome pics of the Amsterdam meet 2014 in my hometown... And I am getting scared that almost all new designs including the most awesome new flippers and frame-locks i.e. the Slysz Bowie and the Rubicon are made with a strictly and only right side tip-up carry pocket-clip :eek: Please Spyderco, I am begging you to make them with a swappable pocket-clip. I don't want to buy customs and I don't want to loose another favorite company. Please :(

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Please Mr Glesser & Mr Glesser, almost every other high-end frame-lock or flipper Spyderco already comes strictly tip-up... :(

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Buendia518
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Postby Buendia518 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:58 pm

jeru wrote:Dear Spyderco, Mr Glesser & Mr Glesser,

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I love this picture

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gbelleh
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Postby gbelleh » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:04 pm

If you only carry in the right, rear pocket, tip-down makes sense I guess.

What's so terrible about tip-up anyway?

I strongly prefer tip-up, but it doesn't stop me from carrying a tip-down only model if everything else about it is great.
:D :spyder:

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Postby bearfacedkiller » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:05 pm

It does seem as though the trend is towards tip up. I'm with you. Tip up is a deal breaker for me and has kept my wallet closed many times. It seems strange that all knives that have both tip down and tip up as an option come with the clip installed tip down yet when a knife is made with only one option it is leaning towards tip up. I only own one tip up knife and have thought about selling it but it is too nice.

Why is it that the Des Horn can have a tip down wire clip but no other models do. Rules out almost every Taiwan knife I like. I will just stick with my Golden and Seki knives with hourglass clips I guess. I unfortunately have thus far passed on the caly and the manix knives for this reason. A knife as big as a Manix2 or Manix xl would have to be tip down for me.

I realize the caly is tip up because of the wire clip and the manix is tip up most likely because of the lock but it seems as though there is still a way to make it happen.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Postby FCM415 » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:08 pm

Mmmm blued fluted Ti Millie. Perfection.

I think many of Spyderco's new in house designs and some collabs still get 4 way carry options. Spyderco pays attention to that stuff. More than really any other major manufacturer actually. The new knives you cited are collabs and the designer has a say not to mention admittedly I think holes in bolsters aren't that great (Valotton prime example for me). I'm a tip up guy unless It's a Millie but I hope you get your wish of more knives that you like getting tip down nonetheless. Will you be getting the tip down Farid? I am :)
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory.
-Leonard Nimoy

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Postby bearfacedkiller » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:12 pm

I carry two knives. One in the RFP and one IWB at 3 o clock. It is just more natural for me to draw and deploy. Just a personal preference and I prefer all my knives to be the same in order to keep it more familiar each time and thus more natural.

Maybe it is just that I have always owned tip down and it was only recently that i bought a Sage3 and tried to get used to tip up. It is so smooth and fits my hand so well that I deal with it but have just not adjusted to it yet.

The Slysz Bowie would probably pry my wallet wide open it it was tip down. Same with the Frontier.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Postby DeathBySnooSnoo » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:25 pm

Im a tip down guy too...so more in that config is better for me. Though Im a lefty...so that means I need more holes.
On the hunt for...

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Postby jeru » Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:07 pm

gbelleh wrote:If you only carry in the right, rear pocket, tip-down makes sense I guess.

What's so terrible about tip-up anyway?

I strongly prefer tip-up, but it doesn't stop me from carrying a tip-down only model if everything else about it is great.
Why I have to explain that? I don't know. I just cannot stand it apparently, so tip-up knives ended up collecting dust. Perhaps it's due to my extra small hands. I have tried it, really. 90% of all folders come strictly tip-up, believe you me, I have tried. Have a Recon 1. And had an Emerson Horseman. Even "practiced" carrying my RAT 1 tip-up. In the end it's a waste of money so I'm not going to be stubborn anymore.


bearfacedkiller wrote:It does seem as though the trend is towards tip up. I'm with you. Tip up is a deal breaker for me and has kept my wallet closed many times. It seems strange that all knives that have both tip down and tip up as an option come with the clip installed tip down yet when a knife is made with only one option it is leaning towards tip up. I only own one tip up knife and have thought about selling it but it is too nice.

Why is it that the Des Horn can have a tip down wire clip but no other models do. Rules out almost every Taiwan knife I like. I will just stick with my Golden and Seki knives with hourglass clips I guess. I unfortunately have thus far passed on the caly and the manix knives for this reason. A knife as big as a Manix2 or Manix xl would have to be tip down for me.

I realize the caly is tip up because of the wire clip and the manix is tip up most likely because of the lock but it seems as though there is still a way to make it happen.
"It does seem as though the trend is towards tip-up"? "trend" lol? Dude? 90% if not 95% of all folders come tip-up! Good to hear that I'm not the only one at least.


FCM415 wrote:I think many of Spyderco's new in house designs and some collabs still get 4 way carry options. Spyderco pays attention to that stuff. More than really any other major manufacturer actually. The new knives you cited are collabs and the designer has a say not to mention admittedly I think holes in bolsters aren't that great (Valotton prime example for me). I'm a tip up guy unless It's a Millie but I hope you get your wish of more knives that you like getting tip down nonetheless. Will you be getting the tip down Farid? I am :)
I doubt if you're right. Almost all wired clips Spydies come tip-up :( Even the new Hinderer collabs from ZT come strictly tip-up, while Hinderer always designed folders with a four-way swappable pocket-clip and are delivered tip-down. I agree that holes in bolsters aren't that great, but better then no holes at all. We're talking production knives here. Get a custom if you want clean, individual perfection, with no extra little holes, is my theory. Production is for the masses.

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Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:12 am

90-95%? My favorite knives are mostly spydies and many more than 5-10% of them come with tip down. I love the Millie, Para2, Native5, delica4 and stretch. The golden spydies come with many tip down options. The manix2, manix Xl and LW native do not but the new LW Native5 may be tip down and so is the Yojimbo. Don't forget about the endura, centofante, gayle bradley, domino, chockwe, or police3 either. I am also very partial to the Kershaw Leek which also comes tip down. As far as other brands go, I am a little unsure. With the exception of my beloved Leek I am an admitted Spyderco fanboy. I have owned a couple benchmades in the past that were both tip down but they are long gone now.

Unfortunately not the extremely popular caly 3/3.5.

Now when it comes to the wire clipped knives and the offerings that are from Taiwan you are right on. It seems as though almost all of the knives from the Amsterdam meet are tip up but I am glad the Worker sprint is not because I will be picking one up.

I am bummed when I pass on otherwise great knives but at least I have the options I do have.

You definately don't have to explain why you like tip down to me. :D
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:56 am

If I like a knife enough, and it came with only one carry configuration, I'd learn to live with it no problem. I just can't understand the entitlement issues some people have. A production knife has to come from the factory perfect for them? Mod it or have it modded if you don't have the dexterity or the flexibility to learn to live with it.

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Postby sal » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:57 am

Hi Jeru,

thanx for expressing your concern. We do pay attention to clip location. After all, we did invent the pocket clip.

There are many factors that play into the clip orientation. We can't speak for other companies, but I can tell you that we will continue to try for 4 way when possible.

sal

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Postby Jazz » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:41 am

Why would you want tip up on a liner lock? If it opens slightly in your pocket, you're getting cut. Just sayin'.
- best wishes, Jazz.

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Postby sal » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:44 am

Hi Jazz,

The argument is that with tip up, the blade will be also held closed by the back of the pockedt.

sal

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Postby gbelleh » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:45 am

No offense meant. Of course no one has to explain their preferences. But an emphatic, public statement of a strong preference might lead to curiosity.

I agree, tip-down seems to work better for large knives. But I just can't imagine it being such a decisive deal breaker. Which is why I was curious.
:D :spyder:

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Postby Mallus » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:59 am

Tip down works for knives that have high ratio of handle weight / detent strength. That is, knives like Paramilitary 1 that you can Spyderdrop easily without using much strength. On the other hand, most lock backs require more force if you were to drop them open, which is an unnecessary source for wear on the lock faces. Therefore, I'd rather have them tip up.

In general, it's quite possible to adapt to different kinds of clip positions, just as it is to different types of locks. Indeed, it's good for the brain to learn to do things in different ways, just because you can. From manufacturers point of view, you most likely gain as many customers by providing the most wanted clip positions and no unsightly extra holes than you lose in form of those who are not willing to adapt. I'm not talking about lefties here, as that is to my mind a different case - you are born leftie, but not tip up or down.

Now, having said what I have, I just wish that the tyranny of Great Majority doesn't extend completely to forcing fat tactical grinds on every new model, instead of lean high performance cutters... :) Or if it does, would it make life any less enjoyable to commission one custom knife instead of hording five production folders? Don't know about the rest of you, but I'd be able to survive several lifetimes with the knives already in my possession; anything extra now is not a necessity but obsession.

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Postby Blerv » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:30 am

Last time I checked there were a plethora of tip down models including some collabs stuck in that orientation. Des Horn, Massad Ayoob, etc. Many are four-way too like the Zulu.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

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Postby jeru » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:35 am

Dear Sal,

Thank you so much for responding! I still cannot believe how awesome it is that the original founder and owner of an awesome company like Spydero answers in person! If it has any meaning, the number one folder I would like to have with a tip-down carry-option is the Rubicon. The second would be the Slysz.

Thank you so much, with the warmest regards from Amsterdam.


Jazz wrote:Why would you want tip up on a liner lock? If it opens slightly in your pocket, you're getting cut. Just sayin'.
I carry large folders and I carry them in my right back pocket, so that is not an issue. But even so: with a good detent it's not an issue either. Further: my hands are just too small. If I grab a folder out of my pocket - with the pivot between my thumb and index finger - my thumb or my middle finger is already the closest to the opening hole/mechanism. With tip-up, I have to climb/clamber/mount upon the handle to get to the opening mechanism...


bearfacedkiller wrote:90-95%? My favorite knives are mostly spydies and many more than 5-10% of them come with tip down. I love the Millie, Para2, Native5, delica4 and stretch. The golden spydies come with many tip down options. The manix2, manix Xl and LW native do not but the new LW Native5 may be tip down and so is the Yojimbo. Don't forget about the endura, centofante, gayle bradley, domino, chockwe, or police3 either.
You are right. That's one of the reasons why Spyderco is my favorite company. (Opening hole is my favorite opening mechanism; flat ground and convex my favorite grinds.) I was speaking in general. And perhaps exaggerated a little out of frustration. I strictly buy higher-end production folders. So G10 or titanium handles and liner- or frame-locks. And I must admit I stay away from hollow grinds. In that category I think 90% of the knives - especially since the new bearings hype - come strictly tip-up. All the awesome new ZT's coming out lately, Benchmades, Striders, CRK's, etcetera. But also cheaper knives: look at SOG, Cold Steel, etcetera. But I must admit, I am picky :o


chuck_roxas45 wrote:If I like a knife enough, and it came with only one carry configuration, I'd learn to live with it no problem. I just can't understand the entitlement issues some people have. A production knife has to come from the factory perfect for them? Mod it or have it modded if you don't have the dexterity or the flexibility to learn to live with it.
I have tried to explain that I really tried to learn to live with it, but that it didn't work out. You "can't understand the entitlement issues some people have"? I cannot understand that you cannot show some empathy. I already did turn around your theory: a production knife is not a custom; a production knife is produced for the masses, so why not drill some lousy extra holes for different carry options? A custom is made for you, the way you want it, without the extra holes. A production knife with a four-way swappable pocket-clip does not "come from the factory perfect" because there are all those "ugly" extra holes everywhere. But then it will be perfect for nobody and perfect for everybody at the same time, if you get my drift. It's not an "entitlement issue". It is just my frustration and therefore I just asked (i.e. begged) for more knives with more carry-options, that's all. "Asking is free" as we say in Dutch. Or "'no' you have, 'yes' you can get" as we say in Dutch also.

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Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:41 am

I don't think any company offers the plethora of options that Spyderco does and for that I am very grateful. That gratitude far outweighs the disappointment I feel when I pass because a knife is tip up. I am very aware that it is my personal preference and I live with it. I mention it on this forum solely because I know that they listen to what people want and generally try to make as many customers happy as possible and hope my comments are not viewed as criticism but simply as one mans humble opinion/preference.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Postby jeru » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:21 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:I mention it on this forum solely because I know that they listen to what people want and generally try to make as many customers happy as possible and hope my comments are not viewed as criticism but simply as one mans humble opinion/preference.
I mention it on this forum solely because I HOPE they will listen :D

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Postby sal » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:42 am

Hi Jeru,

As you can some, some don't like or want "holes everywhere". But they too are our customers. Some clips, like wires, lend themselves much better to tip up from a mfg and longevity issue, especially with daily use. Some designers create more of a "art clip" to fit their design and they don't lend themselves to different orientations, and they don't want us to modify their design.

I was a tip down guy for many years. I designed tip up for those customers that preferred tip up. In the end, I did "train" myself to accept and use tip up. Now, after years, I have no problem with either clip orientation. I even carry non clip models.

As you can see, There are different preferences for clip orientation and easch person has their reason for their preference. "All good, just different".

sal

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