Pivot Washers

[fredswartz]

Some of the finest Spydercos that I have owned have had Mylar or some other plastic looking pivot washers. They all worked great for me. Other knives have had bronze pivot washers which seem more substantial. There is a reason why some knives get synthetic washers and others get metal. What is the reason ?

[Buendia518]

I don't know the answer but I agree that my Junior with plastic washers is smooth and serviceable.

[Random Dan]

And then there's the Caly, which has no washers yet is still extremely smooth.

[RanCoWeAla]

I don't think those are necessary and you get closer tolerances without them. The only place you are going to have any wear in the pivot area of a knife is where the end of the tang rides against the spring . That's why old slip joints sometimes have very weak back springs. And if you don't have a back spring you won't have that.

[The Deacon]

Mostly PR. Spyderco used a lot more "plastic" washers until a bunch of self-proclaimed forum experts declared phosphor bronze to be infinitely superior.

[araneae]

I could care less what they are made of as long as they work.

[gijoe945]

I am far from an expert. Know just enough to be dangerous. When I worked in a power plant, we used a Teflon, peel ply brass and phosphor bronze washers on some equipment, namely sootblowers. The Teflon seemed to outlast and was slightly better in these applications.

[JNewell]

The Teflon and nylatron washers are definitely smoother, at least initially. It's pretty hard to envision situations where the Teflon and nylatron washers would not be as durable as bronze, in real life use. Having said that, I definitely understand the preference for metal... :o

[xceptnl]

Mostly PR. Spyderco used a lot more "plastic" washers until a bunch of self-proclaimed forum experts declared phosphor bronze to be infinitely superior.

Paul, do you recall when you noticed this PR motivated transition by Spyderco to more phosphor bronze?

[RanCoWeAla]

I just don't think they are necessary. A lot of knife makers use them just to make the knife open easier and smoother. However when you open up the pivot end of the knife and mount the blade on a smaller platform there is no way it cannot contribute to side to side blade play. As for the Caly 3.5 you couldn't use washers and get the kind of seamless finish you have along the back of the knife. Personally I try to stay away from them because I think they are responsible for a lot of the blade play you hear discussed.

[The Deacon]

Paul, do you recall when you noticed this PR motivated transition by Spyderco to more phosphor bronze?

Think the push for PB washer, or rather the negativity toward the various "plastic" ones, started in 2005 and the move to them sometime thereafter, say 2006.

[Blerv]

I can only assume it's based on the maker's own preferences and constraints of a particular design.

All of my "plastic" bushing knives are insanely smooth so I certainly won't be complaining :) .

[dbcad]

With a slow speed, low load application like a blade pivot any number of polymers would work well. The FRN on my washerless knives works quite well also

[JNewell]

I can only assume it's based on the maker's own preferences and constraints of a particular design.

All of my "plastic" bushing knives are insanely smooth so I certainly won't be complaining :) .

A lot of custom makers use something other than PB because of the smoother action. Really, when did anyone wear out a "plastic" bushing???

[gull wing]

I have several knives with "plastic" washers, they are just "OK" for my part. I've seen metal bits imbedded in the washers after a while, don't know how serious this is.
What cooks my noodle though, is a VERY thick plastic washer on one side and a VERY thin PB washer on the other side. :eek:

[Officer Gigglez]

In my experience they both work. The bronze doesn't seem to work anymore than the plastic. I really don't care what is in there, so long as they function.

[The Deacon]

I have several knives with "plastic" washers, they are just "OK" for my part. I've seen metal bits imbedded in the washers after a while, don't know how serious this is.
What cooks my noodle though, is a VERY thick plastic washer on one side and a VERY thin PB washer on the other side. :eek:

Is it the different materials, the different thicknesses, or that specific combination that annoys you?

[JNewell]

Is it the different materials, the different thicknesses, or that specific combination that annoys you?

And, joining in the quiz, what knife did you encounter that mixed washers? It doesn't seem like a problem physically, though it might annoy those of us who are right-brained. :)

[JNewell]

In my experience they both work. The bronze doesn't seem to work anymore than the plastic. I really don't care what is in there, so long as they function.

Yes, I basically agree. And I was thinking of washerless knives like the Caly3 today - they work fine. I suppose there may be more friction as it opens, due to the greater surface contact, but I never noticed it with mine. The other issue, that we have seen many complaints about over the years, is the rub marks on the blade where it contacts the liners, but that is truly an esthetic issue, not a functional issue.