Spoiled by Finger Choil?

[this_is_nascar]

Is anyone else spoiled by the combination of the finger choil and thumb ramp found on many Spyderco knives? With every other knife I pick up, I find myself almost getting cut because I reach for a choil that's not there. I love the combination of finger choil and thumb ramp on my Dragonfly-2 and Chaparral and soon to own Sage-1.

[wrdwrght]

So spoiled am I by the finger choil that my Air and Caly 3.5 have become risks to me...

[bh49]

I love choil. All my EDcs has them, except Jester :) . Thumb ramp is good, but just jimping like on Native I found absolutely sufficient.

[bearfacedkiller]

Love, love, love thumb ramps. Indifferent to choils. They are indispensable on some knives and needless on others. I always use the choil on my sage but rarely use the choil on my millie. I use both grips a lot on my Para2 and don't notice the choil missing on my delica. I don't have a Native because of the lack of a thumb ramp. Deal breaker for me.

[Evil D]

I very much love a 50/50 choil, but lately I'm also exploring designs that are such that they leave the index finger quite close to the edge, while still giving the same style grip feeling. For these designs, the extra edge length you gain from not having the 50/50 is much welcomed IMO.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

Nope. not really. I am ok with a thumb ramp there are times they provide a bit of extra leverage, but overall I like more knives with shallow thumb ramps or none to a steep one.

And I think that in the vast majority of cases choils just take away from edge. IMO the best choil is one that is already built into the handle of the knife and takes up absolutely zero blade length.

[senorsquare]

Right now my favorite spydercos are the ones with little to no thumb ramp like the Native 5, Southard and Techno.

[FCM415]

I know I am. Bigtime. Get so much control even with the Millie. I know some people can't stand them. Weird that it works so well for me and not at all for others. I mean, it's one thing to be indifferent... But Ive read posts like aarfgh! I hate them! Aesthetics may be the only valid point that I can understand though it looks good to me. You dont really lose any edge as some claim with Spyderco's use of a choil. Case in point, grab your delica endura and compare it side by side to a meadowlark, stretch or other choiled spydie. See how the edge begins at practically the same distance? Besides, what do you do with a lost 1mm at the tang if even that? Blade to handle ratio isnt the choil's fault. Knives like the Domino and PM2 can be lengthened some to match the handle as they are right now and its not because the choil takes edge away as evidenced by the Delica Endura example.

[xceptnl]

I am a huge fan of 50/50 choils (Dragonfly, Manix 2, Caly, Native, Police, Kiwi, Kopa) as well as the smaller but still useful choil found on the Military and Para 1. I feel the same love for the thumb ramp. I appreciate the smooth ramp of the Caly Jr. as well as the modern fine jimping that Spyderco is using. My favorites are however, hands-down, the Blocky jimping used on the older Militarys models (with the smooth choil) and the Dino-jimping found on the Gen 1 Stretch, Chinook, etc. If Sal could possibly bring us back a sprint with this jimping I would be forever greatful!

[FCM415]

People keep parroting that Spydercos sacrifice some edge by their use of choils. Maybe with how other makers use it like Strider, you lose some edge but check out these pics. If you're even losing half a mm at the tang so what? We're over here geeking out over a half a mm of edge.



Delica - Stretch
Pacific Salt - PM2
Military - Endura

Should not blame choils as the reason why PM2's can have a better blade/handle ratio:

[jackknifeh]

I'd choose a choil over the extra bit of edge 95% of the time. I'm a finger choil fan. I seldom need more edge than is on the knife I grab. I always have more than one knife so if I need more edge I don't grab the Manbug. If I only carried one knife most of the time I don't know what my answer would be to this question.

Thumbramp? I'm undecided. And bh49, I do like the flat spine with jimping on the native (I assume you mean the lightweight) but the jimping on that knife chewed up my thumb. I can't imagine anyone cutting harder stuff like wood using that jimping unless they are wearing gloves. I do like the BIGGER jimping though. I rounded the sharp edges off the jimping on my Native and all was well. :)

Jack

[Evil D]

People keep parroting that Spydercos sacrifice some edge by their use of choils. Maybe with how other makers use it like Strider, you lose some edge but check out these pics. If you're even losing half a mm at the tang so what? We're over here geeking out over a half a mm of edge.



Delica - Stretch
Pacific Salt - PM2
Military - Endura

Should not blame choils as the reason why PM2's can have a better blade/handle ratio:

Well actually, all the knives you just pictured have lost about the same amount of edge length, just to different things. The Delica and Pacific have lost their edge to the kick instead of to a choil. Compare any of those knives to a Southard, Tenacious, Persistence, Resilience, Centofante 3/4, Dialex Junior, Bradley Air, Nilakka, Centofante Memory, and several others and you'll see that nearly the entire blade is ground into an edge clear up to the point where the handle starts. On a lot of knives, particularly back/mid lock knives (though not all) that section of blade used as the blade stop/kick is completely useless area of the blade that serves no other purpose but to stop the blade from bottoming out when closed. What a choil does is reshape that area of blade into an area to put your finger, effectively giving you more gripping area. While this is a great way to utilize that wasted space on the blade, both of these things still equate to wasted space that could otherwise be used for more sharpened edge. Look at any of the examples I listed and you'll see that you don't have to have that wasted blade area, and can instead have cutting edge extend nearly all the way to the handle.

[Blerv]

I prefer a standard guard and full-length edge over a coil (full or 50/50). It's not a big deal with larger knives like the Stretch but smaller ones give up a ton of blade for those ergonomics.

[FCM415]

I recall you being a proponent for edges going all the way to the handle and I get that. My examples demonstrate what Spyderco would do if they removed the choil on models that do have them. It also applies to those who for example wish to see how a choiled delica will end up. They don't need to be discouraged because of a loss in edge. My statements still stand, what do you lose (compared to Spydies like the Delica) a 1/2 mm? Check out my first pic between the Stretch and the Delica, pivot etc. lined up... And the Stretch is the bigger knife. What would Spyderco do if they got rid of the choil? Will they make it like a Tenacious, or make the tang are like the Delica? My bet is on the latter.

[FCM415]

I prefer a standard guard and full-length edge over a coil (full or 50/50). It's not a big deal with larger knives like the Stretch but smaller ones give up a ton of blade for those ergonomics.

I couldn't imagine my beloved Dfly without one though. As much as I like choils, I'm not saying their the be all end all and own many Spydercos and other brands without choils and are fond of those designs as well.

The pics I shared are nothing more than a "defense" and reasoning for keeping choils...Not an argument against edges going all the way back to the handle.

[Evil D]

I recall you being a proponent for edges going all the way to the handle and I get that. My examples demonstrate what Spyderco would do if they removed the choil on models that do have them. It also applies to those who for example wish to see how a choiled delica will end up. They don't need to be discouraged because of a loss in edge. My statements still stand, what do you lose (compared to Spydies like the Delica) a 1/2 mm? Check out my first pic between the Stretch and the Delica, pivot etc. lined up... And the Stretch is the bigger knife. What would Spyderco do if they got rid of the choil? Will they make it like a Tenacious, or make the tang are like the Delica? My bet is on the latter.

By removing the choil, why do you think you have to end up with the alternative in your pics? My examples prove that you don't. You can't simply remove a choil though, because on most knives they do still act as the kick, but the other designs I posted show that you can design a knife in such a way that you don't need either, and I think that's the point people are trying to make.

[FCM415]

By removing the choil, why do you think you have to end up with the alternative in your pics? My examples prove that you don't. You can't simply remove a choil though, because on most knives they do still act as the kick, but the other designs I posted show that you can design a knife in such a way that you don't need either, and I think that's the point people are trying to make.

I never said you have to have those alternatives. Those are examples shown that many other Spydercos loss in edge cannot be blamed on the choil. If anything, those should be the models that are better candidates for an edge to the handle. Look, I'm stating my case why choils are useful and does not detract from a knife (in support of the OP's discussion). Sal, when he designed them didnt think so either. Alright, so if you get rid of that choil area and lead the edge to the handle, what do you get then? 3mm of edge? How useful has that part of the blade been for you? Never used it on my Tenacious...or my Delica...Whatever the case, I'm glad to have choils on many of my favorite designs. I'd like to see longer blades that correspond to the handle a little better first though.

You want more Spydies with blades that go the handle like the Tenacious? More power to you, I like those also. However, I have found choils to be extremely useful and if my other knives that don't have them lose the same edge by virtue of Sal's designs, then so be it.

[RadioactiveSpyder]

Overall moral of this story is to only buy Spyderco knives!

[this_is_nascar]

Like I said in my original post, I find myself lost with the choil and ramp on my knives that don't have them. I like (not yet love) my BM 940 that I just got. Wish it had a choil and ramp. My only experience with the choil and ramp is my DF-2 and Chaparral and my soon to have (where is the friggin' mail man?) Sage-1. I can't picture those knives without them.

[cabfrank]

Loved the choil on my Superleaf.