Spyderco Tactical Folder Line!(SPYDERTAC)

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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defenestrate
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Postby defenestrate » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:09 am

I was about to chime in that Sal and Spyderco are widely credited with bringing locking, clipped, one-hand opening production knives to market and that the term tactical in knives was basically defined by these characteristics 30 years ago but Sal and Mike J put it well as always.

I think that demand for heavier duty knives has made a large difference in the Spyderco product line especially over the past decade or so. I don't personally feel that a Strider or Hinderer or other overbuilt knife will ever make me feel that spydies aren't enough, and I still look forward to getting a Tuff/Tatanka/future Chinook type knife to see if I can enjoy them more than my Manix 2s.

I used my M4 Manix 2 to slide an alternator between 2 heavy bushings because just hammering it into place wasn't working. (not prying, just using it to slide the alternator body against) If I need a stronger knife than that for every day use, I will be carrying a prybar.
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Postby gbelleh » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:29 am

Michael Janich wrote:After Sal's insight, there's not much more to add. However, I will share a story. Several years ago, Sal, Eric, and I met with our UK distributor during the IWA trade show in Germany. One of the distributor's guys, who specializes in sourcing kit for the SAS, went off on a bit of a rant about Spyderco's catalog. Although he had long been a die-hard fan of our products and had sold lots of them to his clients, he felt that the artistic look of our main catalog made it difficult for him to give focused sales presentations to his audience.

This distributor had worked with Spyderco for many years and we respected their feedback and insights, so Sal and Eric decided that Spyderco should have a dedicated catalog and marketing approach to meet that need. The only provision was that we couldn't call it "tactical" because the term was so overused and misunderstood. Kristi and I were tasked with driving the project and after lots of discussion and trial and error, we came up with the term "OpFocus." Short for "operational focus," it represented a focus on our products from the perspective of someone who had an operational interest or obligation (not an "operator," which is another overused, meaningless term). We considered "operational" to be first and foremost duty-bound people like military and law enforcement personnel, security professionals, and first responders. However, we also felt it effectively represented the interests and priorities of survivalists/preppers, martial artists, and those who carry knives as part of their personal-defense plan.

If you look closely at the OpFocus catalog and our consumer catalog, you'll see that about 85% of the products are the same. That's because the vast majority of Spyderco's products are just as functional in a tactical or operational context as they are in a general utility context. What you won't see in the OpFocus catalog are non-locking folders and artistic knives. You also won't see the byrd line, since the OpFocus catalog is used as a primary reference for GSA purchasers, who cannot source Chinese-made products.

In simple terms, Spyderco already has a "tactical" product line. It's represented in our OpFocus catalog. Since Sal single-handedly invented the modern tactical folder more than 30 years ago, "tactical" is in our DNA.

Stay safe,

Mike
And that's a big reason why I like Spyderco so much. No macho posturing or over-hyped marketing BS. Just excellent purpose built tools, produced by thoughtful, mature, people.
:D :spyder:

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Postby zhyla » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:03 am

What if they just made everything with black blades? :)
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Postby Blerv » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:35 am

gbelleh wrote:And that's a big reason why I like Spyderco so much. No macho posturing or over-hyped marketing BS. Just excellent purpose built tools, produced by thoughtful, mature, people.
+1!
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

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Postby VashHash » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:01 pm

Build me a stretch like a chinook 2 and I'd be happy. No frame lock or flipper. Keep it a lock back maybe updated like the native 5. New favorite knife for sure. Keep it sleek and easy to pull from the pocket i find flippers get in the way. When i reach into my pockets. Will this ever happen? Doubtful but spyderco let's us dream and sometimes sal chimes in. For my heavy duty hard abuse i mean use the szabo has yet to let me down. Soon the tatonka will be upon us. That screams opfocus use.

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Postby Train » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:28 pm

I think Spyderco has got plenty of tactical knives: lots of them are in the fixed blade department, exactly where you would probably expect to see a proper tactical knife to start with. There are very few knives there which would not be tactical. As for folders: most of them have been mentioned already.

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Postby JNewell » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:26 pm

Michael Janich wrote:lots of good stuff snipped
In my earlier post, I totally forgot about a home-grown, fully US-designed and made knife that is at the apogee of "tactical" yet works great as an EDC - a knife now in its second generation: the Yojimbo and Yojimbo2. :spyder: A big thumbs-up to Spyderco and Mike Janich for that unique and uniquely useful and versatile "tactical" knife.

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Postby Donut » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:14 pm

eric m. wrote:Sal, thanks for chiming in! Yes I do recognize you and your company are very unique, and in a class by yourself among production knife companies. I also recognize the superiority of your products and also the way you try to meet the needs/wants of your customers! I have everything from the Jester to the Szabo, and most others in between and I love them all for their own specific purposes. Was just looking for something on a Stretch frame, but "BUILT LIKE A TANK" for heavy duty use, that is all. Sorry for referring to this knife as a tactical folder. Definitely wasn't trying to start something here like some assumed!
I would like to hear your definition of "heavy duty use". I'm pretty sure we can list 100 things that would be considered heavy duty that the Stretch will handle well, just as long as you don't put "prying" on that list.

For the sake of keeping your fingers, I don't think prying should be done with a knife.
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Postby Syncharmony » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:50 pm

Donut wrote:I would like to hear your definition of "heavy duty use". I'm pretty sure we can list 100 things that would be considered heavy duty that the Stretch will handle well, just as long as you don't put "prying" on that list.

For the sake of keeping your fingers, I don't think prying should be done with a knife.
I think it's more about the aesthetics of looking like it's built like a tank and such, rather than the functionality. So, basically a Hummer in knife format.
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Postby eric m. » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:50 pm

Donut wrote:I would like to hear your definition of "heavy duty use". I'm pretty sure we can list 100 things that would be considered heavy duty that the Stretch will handle well, just as long as you don't put "prying" on that list.

For the sake of keeping your fingers, I don't think prying should be done with a knife.
My request was stated from the start of the thread, along with all through the thread. I mentioned the other knife companies as well! Many people express their desires for a particular knife design and the qualities they would like to see in them. I am not the first! Will never hear the term "tactical" from me on this forum again! Heavy-use, and Tank built are what I want! I may not NEED it, but who bases/limits their knives here on Needs! Thanks for your input, but not playing anymore. :)

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Postby The Deacon » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:08 pm

eric m. wrote:I've been looking at tactical folding knives from various manufacturers recently and I'm wondering why Spyderco hasn't made any inroads into this area! I'm thinking of Stretch Blade Profile, at least at the rear portion of the blade, with a flipper! I have a Southard, but the Stretch profile would allow for an adequately sized hole with a wide blade for Tactical strength! What do you think? :spyder:
I would say that Spyderco has made a number of inroads into that area, just not the particular knife you desire. The Southard, which you don't seem fond of, the Tuff and Techno and the upcoming Tatanka would all be considered heavy duty hard use folders by most. And, for someone willing to search around a bit, the older Chinooks, especially the Chinook I, and the original (midlock) small and large Manix would also qualify. As for "what I think" of the idea of a beefed up RIL Stretch with a flipper, I have no need or desire for such a knife, but acknowledge that there may very well be a market for it. My tastes run in the opposite direction, toward folding knives optimized for slicing, and my personal "wet dream" would be a Stretch with a 2mm thick blade and a near-zero edge grind. If I'm going somewhere to do something that requires a "beefy" knife, I will always opt for a fixed blade.
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Postby eric m. » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:10 pm

Michael Janich wrote:After Sal's insight, there's not much more to add. However, I will share a story. Several years ago, Sal, Eric, and I met with our UK distributor during the IWA trade show in Germany. One of the distributor's guys, who specializes in sourcing kit for the SAS, went off on a bit of a rant about Spyderco's catalog. Although he had long been a die-hard fan of our products and had sold lots of them to his clients, he felt that the artistic look of our main catalog made it difficult for him to give focused sales presentations to his audience.

This distributor had worked with Spyderco for many years and we respected their feedback and insights, so Sal and Eric decided that Spyderco should have a dedicated catalog and marketing approach to meet that need. The only provision was that we couldn't call it "tactical" because the term was so overused and misunderstood. Kristi and I were tasked with driving the project and after lots of discussion and trial and error, we came up with the term "OpFocus." Short for "operational focus," it represented a focus on our products from the perspective of someone who had an operational interest or obligation (not an "operator," which is another overused, meaningless term). We considered "operational" to be first and foremost duty-bound people like military and law enforcement personnel, security professionals, and first responders. However, we also felt it effectively represented the interests and priorities of survivalists/preppers, martial artists, and those who carry knives as part of their personal-defense plan.

If you look closely at the OpFocus catalog and our consumer catalog, you'll see that about 85% of the products are the same. That's because the vast majority of Spyderco's products are just as functional in a tactical or operational context as they are in a general utility context. What you won't see in the OpFocus catalog are non-locking folders and artistic knives. You also won't see the byrd line, since the OpFocus catalog is used as a primary reference for GSA purchasers, who cannot source Chinese-made products.

In simple terms, Spyderco already has a "tactical" product line. It's represented in our OpFocus catalog. Since Sal single-handedly invented the modern tactical folder more than 30 years ago, "tactical" is in our DNA.

Stay safe,

Mike
Never heard of the op-Focus catalog and never seen it! Just thought that a Stretch folder built along the heavy duty lines of the Strider, Hinderer, ZT lines would fill a void somewhere. Ti framelock, flipper/or not, thick blade stock(4.5mm), and the Stretch profile to allow for a wider profiled blade that adds to the overall strength of the blade! Guess I'll take a look at that particular catalog. I have a couple friends who are black belts in a variety of martial arts, and they speak very highly of you! Thanks for taking time to respond! :spyder: :)

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:00 pm

VashHash wrote:Build me a stretch like a chinook 2 and I'd be happy. No frame lock or flipper. Keep it a lock back maybe updated like the native 5. New favorite knife for sure. Keep it sleek and easy to pull from the pocket i find flippers get in the way. When i reach into my pockets. Will this ever happen? Doubtful but spyderco let's us dream and sometimes sal chimes in. For my heavy duty hard abuse i mean use the szabo has yet to let me down. Soon the tatonka will be upon us. That screams opfocus use.
That cammed backlock on the tatanka looks like it could be a match for the Tri-ad. That should be tactical enough for anybody. Put it on a sprint C95 and I'm betting we'll have another winner.
eric m. wrote:Never heard of the op-Focus catalog and never seen it! Just thought that a Stretch folder built along the heavy duty lines of the Strider, Hinderer, ZT lines would fill a void somewhere. Ti framelock, flipper/or not, thick blade stock(4.5mm), and the Stretch profile to allow for a wider profiled blade that adds to the overall strength of the blade! Guess I'll take a look at that particular catalog. I have a couple friends who are black belts in a variety of martial arts, and they speak very highly of you! Thanks for taking time to respond! :spyder: :)
You're starting to sound like a broken record. :D

We heard you the first time. ;)

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Postby PMBohol » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:02 pm

It would seem the new Tatanka is right up the OP's alley. The Battlestation is another folder to look at and for just plain scaring people there is the Roc. I'm waiting for the first TV show or movie to show that knife.

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Postby BOHAWG » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:16 pm

Bill1170 wrote:Tell me with a straight face the Szabo isn't a tactical knife.
+1
What is the Massad Ayoob? the Chinook? The Military(not PM2)? The Persian?......

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Postby eric m. » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:04 pm

chuck_roxas45 wrote:That cammed backlock on the tatanka looks like it could be a match for the Tri-ad. That should be tactical enough for anybody. Put it on a sprint C95 and I'm betting we'll have another winner.



You're starting to sound like a broken record. :D

We heard you the first time. ;)
That's because everyone is trying to refer me to a different knife! Only interested in what has been stated numerous times by me already! The broken record is falling both ways! :D

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Postby JNewell » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:12 pm

BOHAWG wrote:+1
What is the Massad Ayoob? the Chinook? The Military(not PM2)? The Persian?......
Right, if a folding prybar is wanted, the Chinook and the Tuff would be great candidates. I'd put either up against my SMF.

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:20 pm

eric m. wrote:That's because everyone is trying to refer me to a different knife! Only interested in what has been stated numerous times by me already! The broken record is falling both ways! :D
That's probably because you want a spyderco custom made for you just because you seem to want it just because of how it would look. Lots of spydercos would serve your intended purpose quite well. ;)

Sal and Mike have both explained that probably 85% of their line would suit what you say you want this particular knife for. The broken record are not the guys telling you what the reality is. It's you repeating what you want and not for for the reasons you stated since it has been brought to your awareness that there are others suitable for whatever you percieve your tactical use to be. :)

I actually want a K390 Military just because, and not for any manufactured reason. :D

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Postby FLIP4real » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:24 pm

eric m. wrote: The word "tactical" seems to be sending people into a tizzy! :) :spyder:
As the counterculture moves against the culture it opposes, so too shall the counterculture become culture itself.

That said, I would agree with some who have pointed out that tactical is more of an aesthetic than anything else. Spyderco has chosen to position itself, from a design standpoint, as a leader by innovation - both in their own designs and in collaboration with other renown designers while providing value and quality craftsmanship. They don't need to put something like that out if they feel it is counter to their mission statement and image. I'd say the PM2 in black and camo goes about as far as it needs to. There are also a lot more all black options on some very quality knives that I would take 10 times out of 10 over something thats got a more skeletonized or tanked look just for the sake of looks, and crappy steel for the sake of broader sales.

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Postby twinboysdad » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:09 pm

"there are no tactical knives, just tactical minds" - Fred Perrin

I once took a whirl with the "#1 hard use knife" and was amazed at how poorly it cut after being spoiled by Spyderco. I posted something similar on the USN and was receiving PM's stating "what do you mean the CQC 7V doesn't cut well?" Well, it cuts like crap next to a FFG. I equate the "tactical" movement to the guys who take multiple carbine classes each year but can't go hands in a non-lethal encounter or perform CPR. An Endura carries great, is plenty big, ground tough in saber, and quite honestly is what the bad *** door kickers who are what tactical aspires to be, actually carry. Ask a soldier what they carried in the sandbox, what is sold at the PX, and I assure you there are very few >$100 folders carried.


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