Full Flat Grind Strength

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The Deacon
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Postby The Deacon » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:44 pm

Freman wrote:You mean like a Opinel?
Something like that, but more abrupt. The tips of the Opinels I've seen look more like a "reverse wharncliffe" to me.
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Evil D
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Postby Evil D » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:01 pm

Paul I think I would call that a butter knife grind ;)
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SpyderEdgeForever
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Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:40 pm

Very good informative responses, everyone, thank you. Two related issues: 1 One reason I asked is because I was looking at cross-sections of blades and was wondering which grind had the best balance between overall toughness, and, slicing/cutting ability, that you could count on not to snap.

2 The grind known as the Scandi Grind, which is saber-like, would you call that a full convex grind?

I tend to like the Scandi and Saber Grind the most, but I was considering trying out a Full Flat Grind.

And also, the Saber Hollow or Hollow Grinds of the Atlantic and Pacific Salts are good to me.


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Postby Blerv » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:56 pm

It all really depends on the knife and the specific grind/sharpening. In general thicker = tougher or at least resistant to lateral failure (edge and spine). In most deep cutting tasks FFG knives cut with less effort because there is less drag on the spine. Hollow-grinds tend to ramp and wedge less efficiently.

The scandi grinds come via flat ground (Nilakka), semi-flat (Puuko) or a combination of strange grinds like the Mora 2000 (I think). Basically, the one thing they all share is a lack of a secondary bevel. Ie: the primary flows right down to the cutting edge.

A true convex grind will arc slightly keeping more material behind the edge...like a multiple progressive micro bevel. Less slicing performance for a bit more strength.
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Postby Evil D » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:54 pm

Consider that the blade that slices more efficiently requires less force to make that slice which requires less overall strength...think about a simple razor blade, you could snap it in half with your bare hands but it will out slice any pocket knife you own. Of course, lateral strength is almost completely compromised, so you have to find a nice balance between thinness and the amount of strength needed for a particular tool. Compare a Caly 3 FFG blade to a Techno FFG blade. Both are flat grinds, but the Caly has a thinner blade stock and distal taper, while the Techno has 4.5 (as far as I know the thickest stock of any current folder in the catalog) and no distal taper. Obviously one is going to slice better and one is going to be stronger, but the grinds are both "full flat grinds".

If I had a knife designed strictly for cutting rope all day, I would go with a hollow grind in a heartbeat, since the material being cut isn't taller/deeper than the blade/grind. If I had a knife designed for cutting cardboard all day (assuming I'm not just using a simple razor box knife), then I'd want a thin FFG that's as thin behind the edge as I could get it. If I had a knife designed for all out hard use, I would probably go with either a high flat grind or saber grind tanto, something like my Wildsteer WX. This way I have a stout/thick spine, tons of meat behind the edge, and it won't wedge as badly as a hollow grind. Of course, it may not cut rope as easily since it won't be as thin behind the edge as a hollow, but we're talking about maximizing strength, not slicing ability. When you push the attributes to the far ends of the spectrum, you're going to have to compromise something somewhere.

Image
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chuck_roxas45
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:42 pm

Well.said David.

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Postby RanCoWeAla » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:04 pm

I have a Kershaw Leek Random Task with reverse tanto blade that sounds like what you are talking about. These are not very common but Kershaw did make one with S30V and Black G10. The one I have is all stainless with 12c28 Sandvic.

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Postby Blerv » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:31 pm

Another factor is ergonomics or even personal choice. If you are more comfortable with a knife you will tend to use it better than one that feels unwieldy.

You can't always pick the grind or the steel, rare even. You can find a knife that works for you. While its may be deemed clumsy or thin by the masses if it works for you that's all that is important. Variety is the spice of life, etc.
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Evil D
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Postby Evil D » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:42 pm

Blerv wrote:Another factor is ergonomics or even personal choice. If you are more comfortable with a knife you will tend to use it better than one that feels unwieldy.

You can't always pick the grind or the steel, rare even. You can find a knife that works for you. While its may be deemed clumsy or thin by the masses if it works for you that's all that is important. Variety is the spice of life, etc.
I would take that a step further and say that the right knife/grind can make you feel more comfortable by itself rather than the other way around. Sometimes it's from experience in using a knife so much that it gets to be second nature, and sometimes it's just that a knife really fits you and your uses from the start. I sort of had that with the Yojimbo 2 and it has only gotten better with my mods.
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Postby Freman » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:30 pm

Evil D wrote:Image
That's an interesting looking folder.

Who makes it, and what's it like to use.

EDIT: Sorry, Wildsteer WX. Still, what is it like to use?

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Evil D
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Postby Evil D » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:51 pm

Freman wrote:That's an interesting looking folder.

Who makes it, and what's it like to use.

EDIT: Sorry, Wildsteer WX. Still, what is it like to use?
Well as you can see, the ergonomics aren't anything special. Being a steel handle, it does create some hot spots. That's really my only gripe with this knife, if you really use it hard for what it's meant to do, you might need to wear gloves. Still, I will put this knife up against any folding knife of any brand on the market right now. The lock design is so ridiculously over built, you will break the blade or tang before the lock fails. It's a 2 hand folder, meaning there's no one hand open or close. It was designed as a bow hunter's tool and has an optional gadget that's used with the knife to pry broad heads out of trees, so the knife was actually built with prying in mind, which is why the thing is so **** strong. The lock uses 2 back springs along the spine, one on top of the other. The inner/bottom spring is a type of slip joint that engages a notch on the tang, and then the spring on top of that locks into a notch above the previous notch on the tang in a tongue and groove kind of deal. Then those levers on the side flip around and prevent the lock from being disengaged unless you manually do it, so it's impossible to unlock it by accident or abuse, etc. I chop with it, baton with it using a mallet as the baton, you name it. There isn't a hint of blade play in any direction after a whole summer of yard work and removing a tree stump from my back yard using it as the only cutting tool. The steel isn't the best (X46Cr13) but is a very tough steel and is fine for what the knife is designed to do. All in all, you won't find a better hard use folder for $165.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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Postby Freman » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:13 pm

Thank you.


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