PM2 and Sharpmaker

[jalcon]

I bought the Sharpmaker and tried it out on my working edge, but not that sharp - PM2. I went through the stones (medium, then fine) on the 40 degree setting. I then stopped. It is pretty sharp, and can shave with a few passes, and cuts paper very easily. I wouldn't say it is scary sharp though. With that said, I hear people saying they sharpen exclusively at the 30 degree setting. Then again, I hear people say they do the 30 degree setting, with a few passes on the 40. I'm curious to what that means, are those few passes only on the fine rods? What do you guys do with your PM2 if you have a SM?

I should add, I have the diamond rods for it as well.

Thanks in advance.

[glbpro]

I'm quite happy with the level of sharpness on my PM2, so I use my SM mainly as an edge maintenance device - I will give the edge a few strokes on the flats of the stones set on the 40 degree setting every time I use the knife. I take care not to press too hard when doing this - light pressure is the best way to finish off sharpening, or to maintain an already sharp edge.

[ChapmanPreferred]

I would say that you need to spend more time on the brown stones. You can get "clean shaving" sharp from the brown stones with good technique and patience. I suspect you may not have fully (read "on the entire edge") reached "setting the bevel".

As far as the different sharpening options provided by the Spyderco Sharpmaker...the 30 degree inclusive "back bevel" setting can be used as your primary edge angle. Depending on your cutting needs and behaviors this angle may not resist damage enough for your purposes. It creates a very sharp edge but less durable than a thicker edge. To enjoy the cutting performance similar to a 30 degree primary edge with improved edge stability a micro bevel can be created with a few 3-4 at most per side on the fine stones using light pressure. This will improve edge durability while maintaining a thinned edge geometry.

Using a micro bevel improves speed of touch up sharpening sessions and increases the amount of time between significant sharpening sessions. So every 10th time you micro bevel at 40 degree setting, back bevel again on the 30 degree setting to keep your edge thin but robust.

I hope this helps.

***Edited***
PS: using the "sharpie" trick will help you identify where your sharpening efforts are located on the bevel.

[jalcon]

Thankyou for that excellent info!
You can get "clean shaving sharp" on the brown stones? How much sharper can you make a knife than that? What level if sharp can come from the fine stones?..and Ultra fine stones if you have them?
Tonight I spent some time on the diamond rods and put a 30 degree inclusive on it. I then went through the brown and white rods, and finished with a strop. It shaves, it'll collect quite a few hairs over a pass or two. Idk if that is considered very sharp or not. Maybe I am overthinking it, my OCD definitely is not helping here, lol.

[Bill1170]

I sharpen my Para2 at the 30 degree setting. With care, the fine rods can get the edge so it takes off all the hair from a swath of your forearm with one stroke. If you have to scrape at it to get the stragglers, know that it can be better. The UF rods give further refinement; a light touch helps with this.

[jalcon]

I sharpen my Para2 at the 30 degree setting. With care, the fine rods can get the edge so it takes off all the hair from a swath of your forearm with one stroke. If you have to scrape at it to get the stragglers, know that it can be better. The UF rods give further refinement; a light touch helps with this.

I really don't want to invest in the UF rods. I suppose i'll have to learn to strop properly to achieve this level, haha.

[akaAK]

Hey Jalcon,

I haven't found the need for the Ultrafine rods with CPMS30V, you will lose that fine edge quickly and then you are left with a good working edge for a while.

I use the 40 degree corners, primarily with the medium and then a couple of very light strokes with the fine. Not sure if this is your situation but this process was repeated a number of times on my new PM2 before I started seeing the results I wanted. Most likely the factory edge needed to be removed to get to "fresh" steel.

I was hoping to use the 30 for the primary bevel but the back bevel was ever so slightly wider and I didn`t want to reprofile (which it seems you have done alread)

My PM2 is one of my sharpest now.

[bearfacedkiller]

I have an S30V pm2 and I sharpen at 30 degrees with the med then at 30 degrees with the fine then at 30 degrees with the ultra fine stones. This sets the bevel at 30 degrees. Make sure it is shaving sharp with each stone before moving to the next. The brown stones can produce a shaving edge and the fine stone will pop hairs. I use the ultra fine stones a lot but they really aren't needed and sometimes an edge that smooth isn't ideal. You also want to make sure you are not developing a bur with S30v, it can be easy to do in my experience. Stick to one pass on each side of the knife, alternating every stroke. In an attempt to be faster I used to try to do 10 passes on each side like I had always done with bench stones and was getting a bur with S30V. Early on I had a lot of trouble with that and once I figured it out things got much sharper. Only use the diamond stones to change bevel angle or to remove enough metal to repair damage to the edge. Once the edge is set at a clean 30 degrees and shaving sharp I just do a few passes with the fine or ultra fine rods at 40 degrees. This is called a micro bevel and it puts the stone directly on the edge so touch ups are faster, easier and it guarantees that you hit the edge with each pass. I do not use the medium stones at 40 degrees on the micro bevel. I like the micro bevel as small as possible so as soon as I can't touch up the edge with the fine stones anymore I go back to 30 degrees with the mediums and start over. Never use the diamond rods at 40 degrees on you bevel. The bevel just lets you put the finer stones right on the edge. The micro bevel is key to making it easy for me. I use a sharpie and a jewelers loupe to monitor my progress. It really helps to be able to see what you are doing and to make sure that you are working the edge and not just above it.

BFK

[bearfacedkiller]

I might also add that I do not strop and at this point am still not convinced it is a good idea. I can whittle hair with the UF rods and no stropping.

Also, shaving is not the best test. Both toothy edges and polished edges can pop hairs with ease. Push cutting paper and whittling hairs are a better test for me.

There are different types of scary sharp. Scary sharp and toothy is just as sharp as scary sharp and smooth but they will behave differently on different things. When it gets hair whittling sharp it is sometimes too smooth and doesn't cut everything well. More of the "not better, just different" that you hear so much.

[MatthewSB]

It took me a long, frustrating time to realize that I was pushing to hard on the sharpmaker...

[bearfacedkiller]

Yup. You do not need to press hard with the sharpmaker at all. I will also lighten up as i get closer to switching stones. I feel as though reducing pressure effectively reduces the grit size and prepares you for the next stone. When I am trying to get a really insane sharp edge I just work all the way up to the ultra fine stones with light pressure and then use even lighter pressure and then wet them just a little and use even less pressure. Like not even the weight of the knife. I believe this gives me an even sharper edge and that is as sharp as I have ever gotten a knife in my limited experience.

[jalcon]

Great info guys. Thanks. Anyone see this video and do it this way?

[video=youtube;-MHe_8wTHmg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MHe_8wTHmg[/video]

[bearfacedkiller]

I only pull on the stone and try to avoid a bur at all cost. That is why I alternate every stroke. Some people develop a bur on purpose which I still don't understand. I also make sure to not move up to a finer stone if I have a bur. I would rather shape a perfect edge through grinding than produce a bur and break it off, grind it off or straighten it out to produce a sharp edge. Just seems like it would be sharper and stronger if made without the bur.

There are many ways to sharpen and this isn't how I do it but he seems to get results and you can't argue with results.

[MJF]

The burr is just to let you know that you've apexed the edge. You can do the same thing if you pay attention to scratch patterns and are checking obsessively with a jewelers loupe. Once the scratch pattern is uniform across the entire edge, you've apexed it. Doing this, as I understand it, you'll still raise a burr, it just won't be a large enough burr to feel. I don't think you can avoid raising a burr completely if you're apexing the edge.

That having been said, it's much easier to just raise the burr so that you can feel it and then work with a soft touch after that.

[bearfacedkiller]

I'm still trying to understand the whole bur thing but it seems as though if you alternate every stroke you wouldn't form much of one at all if you even did. What I wonder about is not the ability of both methods to get sharp but rather to stay sharp. I have been told that when you strop to get a bur off you may actually just be straightening it out. It is my understanding that if you bend metal back and forth it gets weaker. I don't want any of the edge of my knife to have been bent one way or the other in the sharpening process. I have had problems with getting rid of a bur with s30v and had to take the knife to a wider angle to grind it off which I would rather not have to do. I have tried to avoid forming them in the first place since then.

It seems as though people have good luck getting results either way.

[jalcon]

Messed with the sharpmaker and stropped some more. I can now take a piece of my wife's hair and shave little.strands off of that single piece. I don't know if that is hair wittling or not, but I guess that's pretty sharp.

[bdblue]

There is a lot of discussion and opinions involved in sharpening. A lot of people talk about sharpening to less than 40 degree angles, and you would think that you could get an edge that would slice better that way, but it is difficult to actually quantify and prove this. You can get a pretty sharp edge at 40 degrees.

Anything beyond the standard sharpmaker fine rods seems to be more esoteric than practical. Whatever most people cut- paper, cardboard, string, etc. can be cut with a less than scary sharp edge. No matter what you sharpen your edge to, after a little use it will be less sharp. If a person wants to investigate the rarified regions of sharpening then that is fine. The microfine rods will probably do it but stropping is usually when you get really sharp.

I used to think that a knife should be profiled to something less than 40 degrees, then use the sharpmaker at 40 degrees for touch-ups. Unless you have the diamond stones it takes a long time to reprofile a knife down to 30 degrees with a sharpmaker, but you would only have to do it once.

[LDphifty]

i am using the sharpmaker's standard rods (brown and fine). and i follow that with a healthy dose of stropping. what am i sacrificing by skipping the UF stones?

[Revival]

I really don't want to invest in the UF rods. I suppose i'll have to learn to strop properly to achieve this level, haha.

IMO, the UF rods are worth every penny!

[bearfacedkiller]

i am using the sharpmaker's standard rods (brown and fine). and i follow that with a healthy dose of stropping. what am i sacrificing by skipping the UF stones?

That depends, are you stropping with a compound? If so then maybe not much if anything. I don't strop though. The UF rods get me sharp enough