Opinions of super blue blade steel please

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xceptnl
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Postby xceptnl » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:43 am

Minibear453 wrote:Super blue tastes funny... :D It's the strongest iron-ish taste I've had in a knife. I was cutting apples, and could smell that scent in the air... what? don't you taste your knives too!? :rolleyes:
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Just got mine today.
I know what you are saying about the smell and taste, but I only noticed it on my very first apple. After that I couldn't taste the "iron-ish" at all and the smell was gone as well. IMO you should sacrafice an apple and slice the crap out of it, then wash the blade and for the next use it should be fine.
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Holland
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Postby Holland » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:45 pm

love superblue! so easy to sharpen, and takes an insane edge
-Spencer

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Postby John E » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:58 pm

I got a SB Caly 3 at SFO last March. It definitely develops patina as a non- stainless steel, but not too much, and certainly no rust, pitting or anything distrurbing. Of course, I don't cut onions with it either. The blade is amazingly sharp- much more so than the CPM S30V on my similar orange UKPK. And it has stayed that way with very little sharpening. I would note that the Caly 3 is not clad- the blade is all super blue. Some of the more recent knives are clad so discoloration will be even less of an issue. I would certainly consider getting one of the other models. BTW- the grey G10 on the Caly is really nice, too.

John

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Postby Donut » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:02 pm

jackknifeh wrote:Speaking of shaving and blood loss, I stropped my razor on some bare kangaroo this morning.
Where did you find the Kangaroo at? Was it easy to catch? :)
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Postby 3rdGenRigger » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:13 pm

jackknifeh wrote:I think a super blue Stretch would be a knife I'd want. I had the blue ZDP Stretch and sold it because I just didn't carry it. It's really stupid. I loved everything about the knife but I always picked up another knife to carry. Where is your Stretch on pre-order? I've thought about getting another one many times.

Jack
Knife Center. Also preordered a Blue Nishijin Spin at the time I preordered the SB Stretch.
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Buendia518
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Postby Buendia518 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:17 pm

I believe I've read some discussion here about needing to touch up as the fresh edge oxidizes. Can someone comment on that?

I haven't noticed any issues on my Endura and it's still whittling hair weeks after sharpening.

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Postby jackknifeh » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:58 pm

Donut wrote:Where did you find the Kangaroo at? Was it easy to catch? :)
Not easy to catch but when you do they like it when I strop my knives on their belly. :) I'll tell you one thing. They are very proud of their hide judging by how much it costs. :) There is one thing for sure and I'm being serious. I don't think there is a better stropping leather in the world. Without any abrasive at all it takes whatever really sharp edge you already have and refines it in a way I haven't seen on anything else. I have two 2x6" strops on blanks for the EP but I don't use them on the EP. I have one still bare and I put some .1 micron spray on the other one. The roo is VERY smooth and thin. Makes a great SMOOTH, firm strop. Great stuff. I would only use it but I really can't afford it. I may bet one though that is 3"x8" someday. I already have leather with different grit abrasives so the roo is benificial to me bare. I'm still learning about sharpening razors (knives too) and don't have a specific set of stones/strops but I'm trying to narrow the items I use. All the great razor honers just use 2 or 3 stones and a strop or two. I try to blame me slicing my face up on the razor being too sharp but I'd bet it is my technique that is flawed. :)

Jack

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hom76
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Postby hom76 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:40 pm

What makes SB stand out among all the other great steels such as M4, ZDP-189, XHP, S30V,etc?

Actually I pre-ordered the SB Dfly and am pretty excited about it.

Thanks!

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Postby Blerv » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:23 pm

hom76 wrote:What makes SB stand out among all the other great steels such as M4, ZDP-189, XHP, S30V,etc?

Actually I pre-ordered the SB Dfly and am pretty excited about it.

Thanks!
It's a high hrc carbon steel. Very low carbide which makes for impressive edge stability.

High amounts of carbon and certain elements form (microscopically) large hard aggregates which act as tiny teeth in the steel. They also tend to tear out at certain edge angles.

As it's been described to me, VERY low edge angles and high carbide don't mix well. A reason why the white and blue steels are known for expensive Japanese kitchen knives.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

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Postby jackknifeh » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:54 pm

Blerv wrote:It's a high hrc carbon steel. Very low carbide which makes for impressive edge stability.

High amounts of carbon and certain elements form (microscopically) large hard aggregates which act as tiny teeth in the steel. They also tend to tear out at certain edge angles.

As it's been described to me, VERY low edge angles and high carbide don't mix well. A reason why the white and blue steels are known for expensive Japanese kitchen knives.
Do you know (or heard a rumor :) ) about that the Rc hardness is?

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Postby Bill1170 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:03 pm

jackknifeh wrote:Not easy to catch but when you do they like it when I strop my knives on their belly. :) I'll tell you one thing. They are very proud of their hide judging by how much it costs. :) There is one thing for sure and I'm being serious. I don't think there is a better stropping leather in the world. Without any abrasive at all it takes whatever really sharp edge you already have and refines it in a way I haven't seen on anything else. I have two 2x6" strops on blanks for the EP but I don't use them on the EP. I have one still bare and I put some .1 micron spray on the other one. The roo is VERY smooth and thin. Makes a great SMOOTH, firm strop. Great stuff. I would only use it but I really can't afford it. I may bet one though that is 3"x8" someday. I already have leather with different grit abrasives so the roo is benificial to me bare. I'm still learning about sharpening razors (knives too) and don't have a specific set of stones/strops but I'm trying to narrow the items I use. All the great razor honers just use 2 or 3 stones and a strop or two. I try to blame me slicing my face up on the razor being too sharp but I'd bet it is my technique that is flawed. :)

Jack
Jack,

My father braids leather, has for 60 years now. Kangaroo hide is the strongest leather for braiding out of all commercially tanned hides. Goat is a distant second place. A tanned 'roo scrotal sack makes a fine purse, no seams. Aborigines have done this for millennia. Very cool material from the land down under.

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xceptnl
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Postby xceptnl » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:19 pm

jackknifeh wrote:Do you know (or heard a rumor :) ) about that the Rc hardness is?
I recall from the mule thread that they were between 61.5 and 63 RC.
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sal wrote: .... even today, we design a knife from the edge out!
*Landon*

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:30 pm

xceptnl wrote:I recall from the mule thread that they were between 61.5 and 63 RC.
Ah thanks Landon :) . For some reason I thought it was higher (internet dreaming :p ) but that thread is probably very accurate.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

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Postby razorsharp » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:00 am

I love superblue scary edge at any grit... I took it to 0.1u at 8dps, it microchipped when chopping food, now it has a 13 dps micro, I looooooove polished sharp edges on that steel. Not many steels for me get 'that' bitey at any chosen grit level

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Postby nozh2002 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:18 am

hom76 wrote:What makes SB stand out among all the other great steels such as M4, ZDP-189, XHP, S30V,etc?

Actually I pre-ordered the SB Dfly and am pretty excited about it.

Thanks!
Hitachi YSS manufacturing plant known for high quality steels and on the edge technologies.
Also it is quite healthy to my knowledge, while Crucible gone bankrupt not so long ago. It is not
surprise that it outperforms Crucible.

Again there are a lot of Xperts who can "read" composition and do not need to really use knives
to say how good steel is. But in real World this is same as reading "hand lines". So answer like
tungsten 1-1.15% content or 1.3% carbon would be really misleading. I am pretty sure if other
manufacturer do the same - result will be different.

I think that somehow over many years YSS found just right mix and right process to do very well
performing steel - it just happened!

I should also not that Aogami most likely way older then any steels you mentioned here.
Set to be ignored by everybody.

Effectevely I am banned, but this is done the way nobody noticed, which means
Spyderco knows pretty well, that this ban is wrong and tries to hide that.

Made in USSR

http://nozh2002.blogspot.com/2011/07/ed ... sting.html

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Postby GoodEyeSniper » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:41 am

Buendia518 wrote:I believe I've read some discussion here about needing to touch up as the fresh edge oxidizes. Can someone comment on that?

I haven't noticed any issues on my Endura and it's still whittling hair weeks after sharpening.
on a theoretical level, any oxidization will decrease edge sharpness. on a realistic level... you will probably never notice while in use unless you are an extreme ocd edge guy and need it to always whittle hair, or if the corrosion is very bad.

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Postby Cliff Stamp » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:56 pm

To clarify, at times relative labels get a bit misleading as often they are taken out of context for which they are applied.

For example how would you describe 420J2 would it be similar to "high hardness, high strength, high wear, martensite stainless", probably not, however if you look at it compared to the vast swath of stainless steels then a 54 HRC martensite stainless steel with a fine lathe of chromium carbides is just that, the problem is what is the base point.

1095 for example with 1% carbon would never in general be described as a low carbide steel, but how do you compare it to S110V, it certainly has a much lower carbide volume than that and much less segregation.

Super Blue has 1.5% carbon and 2.5% tungsten (tungsten is very heavy so that is similar to 0.75% vanadium) and 0.5% vanadium, so it doesn't have the kind of raw kind of wear resistance you get in steels like S30V which have 4% vanadium, but if wear resistance is all you want just get a ceramic knife.

Will you like Super Blue? It depends on how you answer these questions :

-are your sharpening angles generally 15 dps and higher
-do you normally use coarse edges
-can you see the edge of a knife before you sharpen
-when you sharpen a knife, is cutting photocopy paper an acceptable goal

If your answers to these questions are yes, the you will likely wonder why anyone praises SuperBlue as it would not seem to you to even match the performance of D2. However :

-do you tend to use edge angles under 15 dps
-find newsprint cutting to be barely acceptable, not an edge goal in sharpening
-prefer finer polishes in sharpen (and achieve slicing performance through geometry)
-once an edge stops shaving then it sharpened

it is likely you would tend to like Super Blue.

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Postby xceptnl » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:28 pm

Cliff Stamp wrote:
If your answers to these questions are yes, the you will likely wonder why anyone praises SuperBlue as it would not seem to you to even match the performance of D2. However :

-do you tend to use edge angles under 15 dps
-find newsprint cutting to be barely acceptable, not an edge goal in sharpening
-prefer finer polishes in sharpen (and achieve slicing performance through geometry)
-once an edge stops shaving then it sharpened

it is likely you would tend to like Super Blue.
An excellent summary Cliff.
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sal wrote: .... even today, we design a knife from the edge out!
*Landon*

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Postby Evil D » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:35 pm

Buendia518 wrote:I believe I've read some discussion here about needing to touch up as the fresh edge oxidizes. Can someone comment on that?

I haven't noticed any issues on my Endura and it's still whittling hair weeks after sharpening.
On a scientific level, anything that can oxidize will deteriorate over time, and so that means a sharp edge will naturally dull over time. This has long been an "issue" with non stainless steels, but we're talking about long periods of time, not something you should worry about unless you're a collector and leave your knives in a box for years without use.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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jackknifeh
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Postby jackknifeh » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:54 pm

Cliff Stamp wrote:To clarify, at times relative labels get a bit misleading as often they are taken out of context for which they are applied.

For example how would you describe 420J2 would it be similar to "high hardness, high strength, high wear, martensite stainless", probably not, however if you look at it compared to the vast swath of stainless steels then a 54 HRC martensite stainless steel with a fine lathe of chromium carbides is just that, the problem is what is the base point.

1095 for example with 1% carbon would never in general be described as a low carbide steel, but how do you compare it to S110V, it certainly has a much lower carbide volume than that and much less segregation.

Super Blue has 1.5% carbon and 2.5% tungsten (tungsten is very heavy so that is similar to 0.75% vanadium) and 0.5% vanadium, so it doesn't have the kind of raw kind of wear resistance you get in steels like S30V which have 4% vanadium, but if wear resistance is all you want just get a ceramic knife.

Will you like Super Blue? It depends on how you answer these questions :

MY ANSWERS ARE UPPER CASE IN BOLD
-are your sharpening angles generally 15 dps and higher NO. I'VE RECENTLY BEEN TRYING LOWER ANGLES
-do you normally use coarse edges NO, I USE SMOOTHER EDGES. NOT SURE IT'S BETTER BUT THAT'S WHAT I USE.
-can you see the edge of a knife before you sharpen IF YOU MEAN LIGHT REFLECTING ON THE FLAT, DULL SPOTS, NO. I SELDOM LET A KNIFE GET THAT DULL
-when you sharpen a knife, is cutting photocopy paper an acceptable goal NO. PHONE BOOK PAPER SLICING EASILY AND CLEANLY IS THE GOAL. I DON'T REMEMBER USING NEWS PRINT. IF A KNIFE WON'T SLICE INTO THE EDGE AND THROUGH PRINTER PAPER I CONSIDER THAT EDGE VERY DULL.

If your answers to these questions are yes, the you will likely wonder why anyone praises SuperBlue as it would not seem to you to even match the performance of D2. However :

-do you tend to use edge angles under 15 dps YES
-find newsprint cutting to be barely acceptable, not an edge goal in sharpening WHEN SHARPENING I DON'T ACCEPT SHARPNESS UNTIL I CAN SLICE PHONE BOOK PAPER EASILY AND/OR SHAVE MY ARM CLEAN WITH ONE PASS. I CAN NORMALLY PUSH CUT (NO SLICING) DOWN INTO PHONE BOOK PAPER ABOUT 1/8", SOMETIMES 1/4" (ONCE IN A WHILE) AWAY FROM MY FINGERS HOLDING THE PAPER. PRINTER PAPER I CAN PUSH CUT UP TO 1/2" AWAY (OR A LITTLE MORE) FROM MY FINGER/THUMB
-prefer finer polishes in sharpen (and achieve slicing performance through geometry) I PREFER A POLISHED BEVEL AND SMOOTH (NOT TOOTHY/COARSE) EDGES. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN WITH THE GEOMETRY COMMENT
-once an edge stops shaving then it sharpened THIS IS YES. NOT THAT I NEED MY KNIVES TO ALWAYS BE THAT SHARP. I JUST HAVE THE TIME TO KEEP MY KNIVES SHARP. WHEN I WAS WORKING AND COMING HOME TO A FAMILY EVERY DAY I'D GO DAYS OR WEEKS WITHOUT SHARPENING. BUT BACK THEN I HADN'T GOTTEN "INTO" KNIVES AND SHARPENING AS A HOBBY IN ITSELF.

it is likely you would tend to like Super Blue.
Thanks for this post Cliff. I don't know much about the beginning of your post but your questions and what the answers to those questions might mean I easily understood. I've never seen (or heard) anyone address a subject like that. Based on this post and your questions/answers I should like super blue. To make sure I understood your post, based on my answers to your questions, do you think I will like super blue?

When you (or anyone) talks about the percentag of carbon or tungsten or any "ingredient" ( :) ) in the steel all I can do is look at the ingredients in a steel I'm faviliar with and compare it to a steel I am not familiar with. What I know about this stuff comes from reading Spyderco's edge-u-cation. The steel chart and the description of how each item effects the performance. Absolutely no more education than that.

Thanks,
Jack


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