Opinions of super blue blade steel please

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jackknifeh
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Opinions of super blue blade steel please

Postby jackknifeh » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:03 pm

This subject has probably been beat to death but I haven't paid a lot of attention to it. I just put the super blue D'fly2 on pre-order so now I am more interested. All opinions are welcome regarding edge retention, how keen an edge does it take, etc. M4 is easy to sharpen and takes a very sharp edge and holds it. VG-10 may not hold an edge as long but it gets real sharp also. Actually, "getting sharp" isn't really a concern with any steel I've seen on Spyderco knives. Anyway, I ordered the knife and unless I get a whole bunch of folks saying super blue steel is horrible I will get the knife (not cancel the pre-order). When I placed the order this morning I was and still am expecting better than VG-10 (at least) but I haven't heard anything about super blue being as hard as ZDP. I don't know much about steel so comparing super blue to VG-10, S30V, XHP, ZDP or M4 would give me a better idea of blue steel than any technical explanation. There's bound to be some variance in opinions and I'm not very picky about blade steel but I hope I will like the super blue more than some of what I've used. Anyone know the Rc hardness?

I have the FRN/VG-10 D'fly so a grey FRN D'fly with super blue I hope to be an improvement in blade steel. A change in handle color is nothing to me even if it is a sprint run.

Thanks,
Jack

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:22 pm

It's pretty awesome stuff. I'm not great at sharpening knives and even after a few whiskey's I can still touch up SB to scary levels. :)

As I understand it, Super Blue is kinda like 1095 with a bit of tungsten that's got a very consistent structure and is run very hard. No huge carbides, great edge stability, etc.
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Postby Able Dog » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:06 pm

The only experience I have with Super Blue is in my Hiromoto santoku, but I am very pleased with how it performs. As stated, part of what makes Super Blue special is the presence of Tungsten. That and the allure of a high-end Japanese carbon steel.

It tarnishes very quickly, even by non-stainless standards. Depending on what you cut and how promptly you clean the blade, it can develop a consistent and elegant patina. In my case, being a kitchen knife, I have done nothing but food prep with it. After cutting limes, lemons, onions, and lots of garlic the blade took on a dark grey/blue patina.

Cutting performance was scary right out of the box. In the end, Super Blue is not going to be as hard as ZDP-189, but SB is still an excellent steel.

Both ZDP-189 and Super Blue are great blade steels, but personally, if I had to pick between these blade steels (and pay the increased price) I would want it to have the pedigree of Super Blue. Depending where you fall on the utility <-> collectible spectrum your mileage may vary.

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Postby kbuzbee » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:13 pm

I'm with Blake here. SB takes a great edge and holds it a good long time. It's the only steel I get sharper than M4.

You're going to like it Jack!

Enjoy,

Ken
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Postby jackknifeh » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:28 pm

THanks guys. Now I want the D'fly really bad. Of course that will make the wait worse. :) I may as Spyderco what sort of time frame it will be before they are released to the resellers. I'd probably get something specific like "in the near future" or "sooner or later". :) I do remember asking for a timeframe on a knife and they specified a month but I don't remember the knife or how far in the future that month was. I'll just be happy with knowing I'll get it "sooner or later". :) I think I'll use it as a dinner knife to see what kind of patina it gets. I don't now what else I cut that would create a patina. I always force it with some sort of food.

I'm hoping it will be the same shape (exactly) as the FRN model now so it will fit in my neck sheath. A D'fly size knife as a neck knife is perfect for me. It's light, wears well under a shirt (in public) and it's a folder. I'm sure with a fixed blade neck knife it would only be a matter of time before I stabbed myself in the chest trying to sheath it. :mad:

Jack

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Postby The Deacon » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:30 pm

In my younger days, I got a lot of good shaves with Gillette Super Blues. Probably also lost a pint or two of blood to them. As for the Japanese stuff, while there are a lot of "old fashioned" features I like on a pocket knife, a non-stainless blade is not one of them.
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Postby jackknifeh » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:47 pm

The Deacon wrote:In my younger days, I got a lot of good shaves with Gillette Super Blues. Probably also lost a pint or two of blood to them. As for the Japanese stuff, while there are a lot of "old fashioned" features I like on a pocket knife, a non-stainless blade is not one of them.
Is your dislike of non-stainless blades in pocket knives because of the corrosion factor from being in the pocket and persperation?

Speaking of shaving and blood loss, I stropped my razor on some bare kangaroo this morning. Normally I use a leather strop that is either bare or has .1 micron spray on it. First time I used the roo on a razor I think. Anyway, I got done shaving with no nicks. I've been nicking myself less and less. Then I looked in the mirror and I had shaved a sliver of skin off my jaw bone about a half inch long and about 1/8" wide. I had no idea I had done it and it only bled enough to turn red, no drops at all. I don't know if this is just another type of nick that happens or if the razor was sharper than before. Normally when I nick myself I feel that little sting even if it can't be called pain. The width of the area was like I actually tried to shave off some skin. The styptic pencil fixed it up good though. I mastered the styptic almost immediately when I started using a straight razor :D

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Postby captnvegtble » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:08 pm

Superblue = awesome! This is the steel I've been looking for in a PE knife. Takes a great edge and has good edge retention. I like it much better than VG-10. Corrosion isn't an issue for me.

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Postby Blerv » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:34 pm

I got a Tuf-Cloth for a few dollars and just wipe the blade every so often. It's been spotless for me :) .
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Postby SolidState » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:35 pm

It is probably my favorite other than M4. It sharpens a lot more like VG-10 than CPMS30V, and holds a tighter angle very well. I haven't found it to be too prone to rust either.
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Postby jackknifeh » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:17 pm

Blerv wrote:I got a Tuf-Cloth for a few dollars and just wipe the blade every so often. It's been spotless for me :) .
I have the Tuf-cloth and Tuf-glide in a tube. I am thinking I will use tuf-glide like a lube in the pivot to keep the tang or unseen areas corrosion free. Then I can let the blade form a patina on it's own. After the tuf-glide has dried completely in a pivot I use another oil like Nano-oil or Quick Release for actual lubrication. That is if the tuf-glide doesn't work well as a lube which it doesn't do very well sometimes.

It works for corrosion protection though. I used it on the M4 on my GB and after a while wanted to force a patina but was unable to because of the Tuf-cloth I assumed. I didn't use it again for a couple of months and was finally able to force a light patina after the tuf-glide wore off. Since then I've been a firm believer in Tuf-stuff. :)

Jack

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Postby kbuzbee » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:18 pm

jackknifeh wrote: Speaking of shaving and blood loss,
I am in the camp that believes you can make a razor too sharp and it's edge too clean. At least the way I shave, I depend on a certain kind of pressure NOT slicing unnoticed through the skin, but compressing it and shearing off whiskers as it passes.

Ken
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Postby jackknifeh » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:56 pm

kbuzbee wrote:I am in the camp that believes you can make a razor too sharp and it's edge too clean. At least the way I shave, I depend on a certain kind of pressure NOT slicing unnoticed through the skin, but compressing it and shearing off whiskers as it passes.

Ken
I've read when starting out make sure you move the razor 100% perpindicular with the edge. Later on after your skill is better you can use a slicing motion which of course will cut the whiskers better. But there's a fine line with this technique between a good shave and bleeding all over. :) Let's get back on subject. All I need to do is shave with my new D'fly when I get it. :)

Jack

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Postby Minibear453 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:56 pm

Super blue tastes funny... :D It's the strongest iron-ish taste I've had in a knife. I was cutting apples, and could smell that scent in the air... what? don't you taste your knives too!? :rolleyes:
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Postby 3rdGenRigger » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:06 am

I've had a Superblue Stretch preordered for some time now, and I'm VERY anxiously awaiting its arrival...to say the least :D
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Postby nozh2002 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:53 am

jackknifeh wrote:This subject has probably been beat to death but I haven't paid a lot of attention to it. I just put the super blue D'fly2 on pre-order so now I am more interested. All opinions are welcome regarding edge retention, how keen an edge does it take, etc. M4 is easy to sharpen and takes a very sharp edge and holds it. VG-10 may not hold an edge as long but it gets real sharp also. Actually, "getting sharp" isn't really a concern with any steel I've seen on Spyderco knives. Anyway, I ordered the knife and unless I get a whole bunch of folks saying super blue steel is horrible I will get the knife (not cancel the pre-order). When I placed the order this morning I was and still am expecting better than VG-10 (at least) but I haven't heard anything about super blue being as hard as ZDP. I don't know much about steel so comparing super blue to VG-10, S30V, XHP, ZDP or M4 would give me a better idea of blue steel than any technical explanation. There's bound to be some variance in opinions and I'm not very picky about blade steel but I hope I will like the super blue more than some of what I've used. Anyone know the Rc hardness?

I have the FRN/VG-10 D'fly so a grey FRN D'fly with super blue I hope to be an improvement in blade steel. A change in handle color is nothing to me even if it is a sprint run.

Thanks,
Jack
Super Blue is Spyderco name for Aogami - steel with blue label sometimes translated as blue paper steel is second choice for all Japanese custom knives.
First is White label steel. Both carbon steels steels with simple composition, one which provides best performance for blade, but it is not rust resistant.
Blue steel has little tungsten in it to make heat treatment bit easy for smith who can not yet catch pre tempering temperature by eye, blue steel has tempering
window wider. This tungsten does not make it performance better.

This still is quite corrosive, but it outperforms VG-10 and pathetic CPM S30V by far.

There is no such things as this steel can be sharper then other as well as this steel is harder to sharpen.
Most of this talks come from people who do not know proper sharpening technic - do not listen to them
they are not an experts.
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Effectevely I am banned, but this is done the way nobody noticed, which means
Spyderco knows pretty well, that this ban is wrong and tries to hide that.

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Postby GoodEyeSniper » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:23 am

for how well it holds an edge, it sharpens quite easily. I did my "GoodEyeSniper" test on it, which consists of using it seven days a week for months, well past the point of any respectable knife nut carrying it due to dullness. it didn't do as well as cpm m4 which is nearly impossible to get to lose that working edge, or s30v, which is also good in that regard. but seemed better than vg10. it seemed to sharpen easily like vg10 too.

really love the steel so far.

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Postby jackknifeh » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:42 am

3rdGenRigger wrote:I've had a Superblue Stretch preordered for some time now, and I'm VERY anxiously awaiting its arrival...to say the least :D
I think a super blue Stretch would be a knife I'd want. I had the blue ZDP Stretch and sold it because I just didn't carry it. It's really stupid. I loved everything about the knife but I always picked up another knife to carry. Where is your Stretch on pre-order? I've thought about getting another one many times.

Jack

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Postby Doc Dan » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:28 am

I am very excited by the prospect of a DF and MB in Super Blue. I am a huge fan of carbon steel in knives and own several. Over time, they take a nice patina and the look of each is individual. Now, if those only came in bone or carbon fiber...
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Postby The Deacon » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:48 am

jackknifeh wrote:Is your dislike of non-stainless blades in pocket knives because of the corrosion factor from being in the pocket and persperation?
Corrosion, and that I don't find patina attractive regardless of whether it's natural or forced. I might tolerate those characteristics if the price was lower than for the same knife in VG-10, but having to pay extra for it makes it even less desirable. What will Super Blue do that VG-10 will not?

EDITED TO ADD: More to the point, given that I've yet to damage the edge of a VG-10 knife, even that of a Kiwi with a near zero edge full flat grind courtesy of Tom Krein, what will Super Blue do "better" than VG-10 for me?
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