Hey Sal, when can we expect to see FFG Manix 2s?

[Evil D]

Well, I'm gonna have to go against this whole idea that the FFG version is somehow weaker and not suited for hard use and/or self defense. In fact I'm gonna go one better and say that the FFG version is overall stronger than the hollow grind. The tip of the hollow grind (which if any of you remember Ankerson's hard use video, broke off several times) is considerably thinner than the FFG versions...this isn't the same as when the Delica went FFG, the grind is still extremely stout, it just doesn't have that horrible shoulder 1/2 inch up from the edge that wedges when you cut deep/hard material like double wall corrugated.

[Brock O Lee]

Well, I'm gonna have to go against this whole idea that the FFG version is somehow weaker and not suited for hard use and/or self defense. In fact I'm gonna go one better and say that the FFG version is overall stronger than the hollow grind. The tip of the hollow grind (which if any of you remember Ankerson's hard use video, broke off several times) is considerably thinner than the FFG versions...this isn't the same as when the Delica went FFG, the grind is still extremely stout, it just doesn't have that horrible shoulder 1/2 inch up from the edge that wedges when you cut deep/hard material like double wall corrugated.

Agree, I'm looking forward to grab one

[Donut]

I agree that I like the FFG ones better. I have almost all the FFG models.

I keep telling myself that the Saber one is too heavy to carry. I traded away my Saber 154CM one this year some time.

[Evil D]

So here's the best pic I could take showing the two for comparison. It was hard getting the black one to not look overly thick due to shadows. The blade stock is the same width, but the FFG has a distal taper that makes the blade look thinner, but if you look at the very tip, the last 1/4 inch or so is actually thicker on the FFG version. This probably suggests that the hollow grind is a tad thinner behind the edge, which could be argued that it makes it a better slicer, but that will only be true up to the point that the hollow grind widens out to be thicker than the FFG, which is really only an area of about 3/16 or so before that happens so on very deep slices, the FFG will win every time. If you try to slice an apple in half with either of these knives, the hollow grind will crack the apple before it slices all the way through. As for tip strength, I'll put my money on the FFG every time. I just hope that this is the same grind that the production FFG models are getting. It doesn't make for the best slicer, but it will be a better slicer, and for those who like to regrind their knives thinner, this will be an easier platform to do so on.

[RadioactiveSpyder]

Thank you for providing this pic David, it clears things up well (you beat me to it BTW, right now I'm 2500 miles away from my Manix's right now :) ). As far as availability of saber grind models, I'm pretty sure they'll be available on the secondary market for some time to come, one just needs to know what rocks to look under...

[DougC-3]

I don't want to throw any flies into the ointment, but the hollow ground Manix2 was my first spydie and will probably remain one of my favorites. I hope they can continue to be produced alongside newer FFG models whenever there's a demand for it. Producing an incredible variety of knives seems to be Spyderco's forte, which is great for us people who like a large variety. Fortunately, Sal and crew seem to be the Houdinis of working in small production runs when needed, so maybe there's no requirement for an either-or situation.

My original HG Manix2 is the smoothest operating knife I've ever had. The extra weight of the blade can be a help in opening and closing. Holding the open knife horizontal to the ground, if you release the lock, you can just raise the tip about 20 degrees and cant the knife toward you about 10 degrees, and the blade will smoothly swing around and completely close by itself. My XL, with its lighter FFG blade, has have a slight flick to completely close in this situation. The XL is DLC coated, so, if the coating extends onto the tang, I guess that could be causing a trace of friction.

These may be small considerations, but I just like the knife, and I don't even pretend to give all my knives frequent, heavy workouts, so I'm not likely to break any tips, etc... and maybe I'll have a new FFG M2 handy if I need to do some slicing... just my $.02

[twinboysdad]

I would buy several HG Manix 2's if you are worried about not finding one down the road. They are def priced at a point that grabbing a spare should not break the bank. I am interested in the FFG purely from a sharpening standpoint. Noob skillz and FFG seem to mesh well on the stones.

[Evil D]

I don't want to throw any flies into the ointment, but the hollow ground Manix2 was my first spydie and will probably remain one of my favorites. I hope they can continue to be produced alongside newer FFG models whenever there's a demand for it. Producing an incredible variety of knives seems to be Spyderco's forte, which is great for us people who like a large variety. Fortunately, Sal and crew seem to be the Houdinis of working in small production runs when needed, so maybe there's no requirement for an either-or situation.

My original HG Manix2 is the smoothest operating knife I've ever had. The extra weight of the blade can be a help in opening and closing. Holding the open knife horizontal to the ground, if you release the lock, you can just raise the tip about 20 degrees and cant the knife toward you about 10 degrees, and the blade will smoothly swing around and completely close by itself. My XL, with its lighter FFG blade, has have a slight flick to completely close in this situation. The XL is DLC coated, so, if the coating extends onto the tang, I guess that could be causing a trace of friction.

These may be small considerations, but I just like the knife, and I don't even pretend to give all my knives frequent, heavy workouts, so I'm not likely to break any tips, etc... and maybe I'll have a new FFG M2 handy if I need to do some slicing... just my $.02

There are a slew of possible reasons your FFG knife doesn't close as smoothly as the hollow grind, lease of all likely being the weight of the blade. I have both, and both drop with gravity with no problem. Also consider the weight of a Para 2 blade, which I'm sure is lighter than either of the Manix blades, and it has no problem swinging shut without any help.

[DougC-3]

There are a slew of possible reasons your FFG knife doesn't close as smoothly as the hollow grind, lease of all likely being the weight of the blade. I have both, and both drop with gravity with no problem. Also consider the weight of a Para 2 blade, which I'm sure is lighter than either of the Manix blades, and it has no problem swinging shut without any help.

My FFG XL and para 2's (also my DLC hollow ground Manix2) will close OK by gravity if I turn them so that the blades can drop vertically or nearly vertically, and I'm sure they'll do even better when I apply the Nanno oil I got last week. It's hard to explain without a demo or video, but the blade of my HG Manix2 will slowly and smoothly swing all the way around to closing by itself when it's just a few degrees off scale-side horizontal to the ground. I know this is a picky point, I was just very impressed when I saw how smoothly this knife works. Also, I may have all the HG Manixes I'll ever need, and I like them in FFG too. I've been pining for a tan M4 ever since I saw a picture of one.

I think the "slew of possible reasons" applies to my DLC hollow ground M2, which binds a tiny bit if I tighten the pivot screw enough to remove all lateral play, but that's probably another story for another thread--I definitely need to learn more about blade adjustment :)

[Gunslinger]

Is the current Manix 2 production model Saber ground or hollow ground?

[DougC-3]

I would buy several HG Manix 2's if you are worried about not finding one down the road. They are def priced at a point that grabbing a spare should not break the bank. I am interested in the FFG purely from a sharpening standpoint. Noob skillz and FFG seem to mesh well on the stones.

I might buy a plain edge uncoated one since I don't have that version and might even find one in 154CM, which I also don't have, but the next Manix on my list is the light weight... but if the new FFG regular wt. comes out before I'm ready to buy, I may have to try one of them first. I just heard of this and didn't realize what a done deal it was. They're already in the Spydiewiki as having "replaced hollow ground S30V version" in 2014!

http://spydiewiki.com/index.php?title=C101_Manix_80mm

[DougC-3]

Is the current Manix 2 production model Saber ground or hollow ground?

Mine are hollow ground

[Zenith]

Is the current Manix 2 production model Saber ground or hollow ground?

Some would say it is a saber-hollow grind.

Best way to describe it is with pictures.



From this thread:

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... rite-Grind

[Zenith]

It is a shame we dont see more high hollow or full hollow blades. I love hollow grinds, probably because one of my first knives was with a hollow grind and I like the sharp lines (appeal) it can create in a knife blade.

The following picture shows a 20 inch wheel (508mm) with a radius of 10 inches (254mm) and stock of 30mm broad by 4mm thick. Makers are starting to use 18 inch wheels sometimes, some are talking about 20 inch wheels, some are trying to build 30 inch wheels. An interesting thing is Frank Centofante used a 36 inch wheel.

One can of course draw the conclusion that the bigger the wheel is the closer the hollow becomes to a flat (blue line) grind. The Flat Grind in this pictures (blue) is at 4 degrees from top corner to center point.

[DougC-3]

Zenith, I enjoyed your video review of the Manix2 with black blade. It was instrumental in my choice of some of my first Spyderco knives.

[Evil D]

At some point I would prefer a full hollow over a full flat but only when the radius is huge, and only because wedging would be at a minimum while still keeping the blade thinner behind the edge than a full flat. Too bad knives like that are so hard to come by.

[DougC-3]

Rethinking what I said above about the "heavier weight" of the HG Manix2 blade, it occurs to me that I was going by my impressions of the light feeling of the M2-XL blade. I've never actually held or opened a FFG M2 other than the XL. The new catalog gives the weight of the new FFG as 6.2 oz, same as the HG M2 & XL. (The Spydiewiki gives 5 oz for all of the M2's.) I'm thinking that you (David) are right, and whatever small amount of extra metal may be removed in the FFG (even if the specs in the new catalog haven't been updated for the FFG M2) is probably negligible compared to other factors like pivot adjustment and lubrication. I still think the HG is a cool looking blade :)

[Evil D]

Rethinking what I said above about the "heavier weight" of the HG Manix2 blade, it occurs to me that I was going by my impressions of the light feeling of the M2-XL blade. I've never actually held or opened a FFG M2 other than the XL. The new catalog gives the weight of the new FFG as 6.2 oz, same as the HG M2 & XL. (The Spydiewiki gives 5 oz for all of the M2's.) I'm thinking that you (David) are right, and whatever small amount of extra metal may be removed in the FFG (even if the specs in the new catalog haven't been updated for the FFG M2) is probably negligible compared to other factors like pivot adjustment and lubrication. I still think the HG is a cool looking blade :)

I'm not saying blade weight doesn't have an effect, because it surely does, I'm just saying that comparing two knives that are so similar, the difference is probably in the pivot. I've had so many Manix 2's and Para 2's now that all had varying pivot smoothness in the pivot action that I'd put my money on that before blade weight. Now, if you could somehow be sure that the pivots were adjusted and lubed exactly the same (likely impossible), then the weight of the blade would definitely cause one to close smoother than the other. I really don't think there's much weight difference between the two grinds though, because as FFG's go, the Manix grind is a rather thick FFG with very little distal taper. Any weight difference between the two knives likely comes from the skeletonized liners as much or more than the blade grind.

[DougC-3]

I'm not saying blade weight doesn't have an effect, because it surely does, I'm just saying that comparing two knives that are so similar, the difference is probably in the pivot. I've had so many Manix 2's and Para 2's now that all had varying pivot smoothness in the pivot action that I'd put my money on that before blade weight. Now, if you could somehow be sure that the pivots were adjusted and lubed exactly the same (likely impossible), then the weight of the blade would definitely cause one to close smoother than the other. I really don't think there's much weight difference between the two grinds though, because as FFG's go, the Manix grind is a rather thick FFG with very little distal taper. Any weight difference between the two knives likely comes from the skeletonized liners as much or more than the blade grind.

Now we've just gotta get hold of one and check 'em out! :D

[Fresh Eddie Fresh]

Are we playing word association? lol

The Superleaf is discontinued, and doesn't have a ball bearing lock. If I wanted FFG and a compression lock, I'd just carry a Para 2.

I have both and the Superleaf blade is one thick slab of metal... my Para2 blade is much thinner. They are really not comparable at all.

That being said, I will look forward to the Manix2 FFG as well... after I get a couple more of the current version in satin (I already have two DLC ones. :) )