Lockback Troubles

[Invective]

Hello all, I just bought an original Chinook and noticed a few things off with the knife, so I wanted some feedback on how best to remedy them. First is the lockbar. When the knife is closed, the lockbar lies flush with the handle



However, when it is opened, it is no longer flush



And I know what you're thinking, there's just some gunk in the lock bar recession on the blade. I thought the same thing and cleaned it out, blew some compressed air in there and cleaned it all out



and the problem still persisted. There is also some noticeable up and down play that I think stems from the same problem. Lock still engages and works though, I could not force it closed so nothing to worry about in that regards.

So I guess I'm wondering, have any of you guys experienced this sort of thing, and if so what did you do to rectify it? I'd like to be able to do something about it without having to send it in to Spyderco but if warrantying it is the only way, then I would be glad to do that.

Thanks!

[The Deacon]

Minor amounts of vertical blade play are not uncommon in Spyderco midlocks. As for the lockbar, while less common, some of them don't sit perfectly flush in both open and closed positions. Some will be a tad high in one and flush in the other, somesome a tad low in one and flush in the other. Personally, I wouldn't consider either a defect, but I wouldn't sell a knife that had one or both issues without disclosing it.

[eric m.]

yOU MAY HAVE TO SEND IT BACK. THE NOTCH ON THE LOCKBAR MAY NOT BE FULLY RECESSING INTO THE BLADE NOTCH.

[Invective]

Minor amounts of vertical blade play are not uncommon in Spyderco midlocks. As for the lockbar, while less common, some of them don't sit perfectly flush in both open and closed positions. Some will be a tad high in one and flush in the other, somesome a tad low in one and flush in the other. Personally, I wouldn't consider either a defect, but I wouldn't sell a knife that had one or both issues without disclosing it.

Alright, thanks for the advice/knowledge Deacon. Looking at some of my other lockbacks, I can see a few of them have the same problems, albeit less apparent so I never noticed. And I got it for a great price ($125 for a 440V Chinook1 ComboEdge seemed too good to pass up) so I'm not too put off by the niggles, they're just annoying. Trying to find a 2.5 hex so I can fiddle with the pivot a bit and see if that helps. And as I said, I can't get any lock failure so it's mostly just the annoyance of slight blade movement when cutting that throws me

[dbcad]

The chinook is a lockback I believe?

If so it is a simple case of geometry?

What is causing the interference?

[JNewell]

Where did you get that excellent graphic??? :)

[dbcad]

Where did you get that excellent graphic??? :)

I made it with Solidworks and a caliper..... don't want to derail the OP's thead tho :o ........It's a good graphic tool to illustrate exactly what might be going on.

[Invective]

The chinook is a lockback I believe?

If so it is a simple case of geometry?

What is causing the interference?

Yeah, it's a lockback with pinned construction except for the pivot so I can only tweak the pivot. And I can't find anything in the lockface that is obstructing it. I guess it is just how the lock is.

Where did you get that excellent graphic??? :)

If I'm not mistaken, dbcad has been making that in his off time at work.

[dbcad]

Yeah, it's a lockback with pinned construction except for the pivot so I can only tweak the pivot. And I can't find anything in the lockface that is obstructing it. I guess it is just how the lock is.



If I'm not mistaken, dbcad has been making that in his off time at work.

Just trying to help Invective :) Things do seem to get more clear once geometry is exposed :) I don't know if the chinook is different as I am no expert and the knife is pinned. It might be worth it to contact Spyderco and see if anything can be done. Maybe there's a deep seated piece of garbage that's being stubborn :eek: Without some very cool and expensive tools it might be tough to tell :)

[senorsquare]

One thing I notice in your photo is that while not flush with the liners while open, the lockbar is flush with the thumb ramp on the blade. This would lead me to believe that the pivot hole may be just a hair off-center of where it should be. Or the opening for the lockbar to rest in is ground a little thick on one side.

[Invective]

One thing I notice in your photo is that while not flush with the liners while open, the lockbar is flush with the thumb ramp on the blade. This would lead me to believe that the pivot hole may be just a hair off-center of where it should be. Or the opening for the lockbar to rest in is ground a little thick on one side.

Ooohh I never made that connection before. One thing I have noticed that's relate to this is that when the knife is closed, the lockbar is raised a lot higher than on any of my other knives, such that the lock button is raised slightly higher than the rest of the handle, I'm guessing there is just something off in the lock mechanism that has raised everything a hair. It all seems symmetrical, everything is offset by about the same amount, so it's probably safe, just higher than usual.

[Clip]

Invective, my old 83mm Manix lockbar does the exact same thing. Will get pictures tomorrow but perhaps it's intended to give the lockbar some extra life as it 'seats' itself over years of use? Not sure. Either way, doesn't seem to affect performance or lockup in any way.

[Invective]

Invective, my old 83mm Manix lockbar does the exact same thing. Will get pictures tomorrow but perhaps it's intended to give the lockbar some extra life as it 'seats' itself over years of use? Not sure. Either way, doesn't seem to affect performance or lockup in any way.

Ooh well that's good to hear at least! Does yours have any kind of vertical bladeplay? I can easily move the blade about a 1 millimeter up, using maybe 5lbs of pressure, but then it stops and is secure.

[defenestrate]

How far off is that? .2mm(~.008")? Less? When manufacturing thousands of knives like this and trying to put them out at a decent price, you can either fit the parts for safety and functionality or you can modify or reject parts that don't perfectly fit your ideal of how they should fit. How much would a Chinook with its bulk and quality materials cost if QC didn't allow a bit of (occasionally visible) variation? $750? $1000? Sal has discussed tolerances, including pertaining to the price of certain CRK knives, and from what I gather, it is not plausible to make every knife identical to the naked eye at near this (std) price point and stay in business. While I understand the preference for seemingly "perfectly" fit parts, a small amount of play and some variation of fitment is going to happen, and does not indicate that your knife is a "lemon", nor does it affect reliable performance over time in any easily calculable way. If you are concerned you can send it back but I would consider this within std quality spec. Perhaps someone with a more "perfect" fit would consider trading.. but YMMV.

[defenestrate]

BTW I hope that didn't seem condescending-I think everyone is entitled to prefer and seek what they want. Just trying to put this in perspective. I hope you are happy with your knife in the end and that it serves you well for a long time.

[Invective]

BTW I hope that didn't seem condescending-I think everyone is entitled to prefer and seek what they want. Just trying to put this in perspective. I hope you are happy with your knife in the end and that it serves you well for a long time.

I didn't find it condescending at all, thanks for the reply! I was just seeking out what other people thought and whether it was in spec or not. Thanks for the help forumites! I will start using the knife and if anything happens, will then send it in. no sense in being deprived of this beast because of a few things that do no affect the overall usage :D

[Clip]

No vertical play on the Manix, but my SB Caly 3.5s have the slight play you mentioned.

[akaAK]

Invective, my old 83mm Manix lockbar does the exact same thing. Will get pictures tomorrow but perhaps it's intended to give the lockbar some extra life as it 'seats' itself over years of use? Not sure. Either way, doesn't seem to affect performance or lockup in any way.

+1 on this, my mini manix had the same issue, messed around with it endlessly to no avail. Decided to just go ahead and use it as it wasn't an issue with the strength of the lock. It eventually seated itself on its own and most of the blade play disappeared. Maybe lucky on my part but I like to think the locks need to wear in a little. I have had the same issue with a delica but it doesn't get used very much so hasn't rectified itself.

NIce catch on the Chinook by the way.

[Holland]

No vertical play on the Manix, but my SB Caly 3.5s have the slight play you mentioned.

every caly3/3.5 superblue knife ive had (4) all had play, the 3.5s were worse than the 3s which i why i sold them

[dres_x]

I have a similar type of problem on my expensive lava sprint...tried loosening the pivot but the issue still happens. People from the forums generally said to let it wear in a bit but I don't feel like it has changed much, but it doesn't bother me as much as when I got it. Was just expecting perfection on such an expensive knife when my "cheap" delica came perfect.