The use of thinner blades

[mattman]

And we hear the same protests starting with:

" I had a cheaper blade with lousy steel that took whatever I could give it", " A knife that costsXXX should be able to take harder use than a cheaper blade"!

and:

" When a knife is called a Military that means it should be strong enough to take hard use", " My tip just broke off when I took it out of the box and cut a napkin". "No hard use knife called Military should break it's tip on a napkin!!!" " It has to be defective".

Other forumite: " Yep, it's a bad heat treat!"

me: "But you stated over on XYZFourms it broke when you tried to pry a plastic hose off your undergravel aquarium filter". " contact W&R and tell them what happened and get it fixed" " it should be a simple regrind of the tip"

other forumite comes back with: " Of course Spyderco can do no wrong to some of these fanboys here" " No, your knife should never have broken on a napkin. It's got to be a defective heat treat"....

Forumite masters degree paper writer: " How dare you tell customers they can't get a knife looked at under warranty." " Spyderco needs to know when there are problems with their products so they can improve them!"

me: "Huh?"

OP with broken tip: " I feel very picked on" " I just came here with a simple question and got jumped on by all these people who think Spyderco can do no wrong"

Some other poster: "What?"

Next guy: " uh oh, Peanut better and jelly time".....

Etc., Etc,.

And so on.........

I really want to put this quote in my sig.... :D

[Peter1960]

@The Mastiff: Sir, With your post above, you took the words right out of my mouth!

[GoodEyeSniper]

of course we don't *need* blades that thin, just like people don't usually need knives as thick as their overbuilt mall ninja knives... the difference is that our preference for thin knives actually lead to knives which do 99% of their tasks better, whereas the thick knives do 99% of their tasks WORSE, but have that rare moment of hacking through a school bus to save dozens of drowning students where a thin knife may be broken in the process...

I kind of look at it like one person picking a Corvette for commuting(thin knife), and another picking a lifted turbo diesel on 37 inch super swamper tires(thick knife). you will almost never need the extreme abilities of either vehicle, and the sports car is generally more efficient than the big truck for average commuter life, but both only really show their strengths in vastly different circumstances, and other then that, they both generally get the job done.

cliffs: thinner is better, but not really, but sometimes, and other times not as much, but usually yes, if you want it to be.

[xceptnl]

of course we don't *need* blades that thin, just like people don't usually need knives as thick as their overbuilt mall ninja knives... the difference is that our preference for thin knives actually lead to knives which do 99% of their tasks better, whereas the thick knives do 99% of their tasks WORSE, but have that rare moment of hacking through a school bus to save dozens of drowning students where a thin knife may be broken in the process...

I kind of look at it like one person picking a Corvette for commuting(thin knife), and another picking a lifted turbo diesel on 37 inch super swamper tires(thick knife). you will almost never need the extreme abilities of either vehicle, and the sports car is generally more efficient than the big truck for average commuter life, but both only really show their strengths in vastly different circumstances, and other then that, they both generally get the job done.

cliffs: thinner is better, but not really, but sometimes, and other times not as much, but usually yes, if you want it to be.

That is a really accurate analogy and I agree 100% about the 99% situation. That's why I carry a multi-tool, small thin knife and a thick sharpened prybar too. All situations covered at the same time (unlike a car you can drive multiples).

[D1omedes]

I think one just has to see the long-term performance and praise for the SAK's and Opinels to see how effective thin knives are for cutting purposes.

I'd be very excited to see a 2mm blade from Spyderco. Perhaps the new Kiwi concept that Wouter showed us from the 2013 Amsterdam Meet? :rolleyes:

[Rider675]

I have to say 3mm is a good compromise, thickness behind the edge is ultimately why I regrind.

[xceptnl]

Although not an absolute, blade stock and thickness behind the edge are generally related (at least in FFG models).

[Cliff Stamp]

I think one just has to see the long-term performance and praise for the SAK's and Opinels to see how effective thin knives are for cutting purposes.

As a possible solution to this demand, if there isn't a wide spread need for them, how about if Spyderco offered a custom regrind service? This would both allow those who wanted particular profiles to be given them, but still keep the warranty (which is voided if you use a custom regrind), and it would also allow Spyderco to deal with liability issues (the reground blades could be marked/fine edge or something more marketable) and also measure the size of the market.

[Donut]

As a possible solution to this demand, if there isn't a wide spread need for them, how about if Spyderco offered a custom regrind service? This would both allow those who wanted particular profiles to be given them, but still keep the warranty (which is voided if you use a custom regrind), and it would also allow Spyderco to deal with liability issues (the reground blades could be marked/fine edge or something more marketable) and also measure the size of the market.

Are you sure regrinding voids the warranty? I thought the warranty said if you disassemble the knife, the warranty is void.

[The Deacon]

Are you sure regrinding voids the warranty? I thought the warranty said if you disassemble the knife, the warranty is void.

They also state that repairs by anyone other than Spyderco void the warranty, so I'm fairly certain a regrind would. Definitely so if the "problem" was a broken blade. At best, given that Spyderco's normal way of handling warranty issues is to replace the knife, if something else breaks and they decide to honor the warranty, you'd get back a replacement knife with a stock blade. I've given serious consideration of having a Stretch modded that way, but I wouldn't expect warranty service on it if I did, any more than I'd expect Spyderco to warranty any of my SFSW Kiwis.

OTOH, Spyderco has repeatedly expressed a total lack of interest in a custom shop of any kind, so I don't see Cliff's idea as viable.

[Evil D]

Eh, I have a love/hate relationship with thin blades. I like thick blades from an aesthetics perspective, and I like having a thicker blade for a thumb ramp. I also believe the grind ultimately plays as much role in how good it is at slicing as overall stock thickness is concerned, as well as what you're cutting and how. If a blade is thin enough behind the edge you may well have cut through something by the time the spine thickness matters. I'm not sure I can tell a difference between my 4mm thick FFG blades and my 3mm thick FFG blades because the thickness behind the edge is so close. I don't have calipers to measure with but I don't think my Cento 4 is that much thinner behind the edge than my Para 2, so to feel the difference on those two knives you need to make deep cuts through something like cardboard to feel the difference. For EDC I would prefer a happy compromise of a FFG blade that's ground thin behind the edge but is still 3-4mm thick at the spine, but I wouldn't be opposed to a Stretch that's 2mm thick blade stock and FFG, I just don't think I would EDC it. I don't go around prying on things or chopping with my pocket knives, but the added thickness is peace of mind if I ever needed to do any hard twisting during a cut.

[D1omedes]

As a possible solution to this demand, if there isn't a wide spread need for them, how about if Spyderco offered a custom regrind service? This would both allow those who wanted particular profiles to be given them, but still keep the warranty (which is voided if you use a custom regrind), and it would also allow Spyderco to deal with liability issues (the reground blades could be marked/fine edge or something more marketable) and also measure the size of the market.

That would be a great service but I doubt we'll ever see it. Spyderco has a tough enough time meeting demand (ie. Para 2 and Yojimbo 2).

[GoodEyeSniper]

yeah, spine thickness mostly comes into play if you are doing deep cuts into a material that can bind on the blade. i do notice a difference between say my Centofante 4 with 2mm spine and a very thinned out edge compared to my military which is about 4mm nearest the choil when doing long cardboard cuts. I work at a bike shop and most new bikes come packaged in long boxes which inevitably need to be broken down. the difference in use isn't really huge, but it is noticeable. that said, give my thin vg10 blade a couple of long work days and it become vastly out cut by my cpm m4 military which might have WEEKS of the same chores on it, and it still wants to cut.

I think one just has to see the long-term performance and praise for the SAK's and Opinels to see how effective thin knives are for cutting purposes.

I'd be very excited to see a 2mm blade from Spyderco. Perhaps the new Kiwi concept that Wouter showed us from the 2013 Amsterdam Meet? :rolleyes:

I know of two current models that are 2mm, the Centofante 3 and GB Air. but I would love to see a large blade that thin, and maybe a small blade even thinner.

[Cliff Stamp]

Spyderco has a tough enough time meeting demand (ie. Para 2 and Yojimbo 2).

With items like this, the solution is sub-contract on demand.

[chuck_roxas45]

With items like this, the solution is sub-contract on demand.

I wouldn't buy a sub contracted para 2...

[Blerv]

It seems that the problem can be cured with aggressive hollow-grinding. A shame they aren't as trendy these days.

[Ankerson]

And we hear the same protests starting with:

" I had a cheaper blade with lousy steel that took whatever I could give it", " A knife that costsXXX should be able to take harder use than a cheaper blade"!

and:

" When a knife is called a Military that means it should be strong enough to take hard use", " My tip just broke off when I took it out of the box and cut a napkin". "No hard use knife called Military should break it's tip on a napkin!!!" " It has to be defective".

Other forumite: " Yep, it's a bad heat treat!"

me: "But you stated over on XYZFourms it broke when you tried to pry a plastic hose off your undergravel aquarium filter". " contact W&R and tell them what happened and get it fixed" " it should be a simple regrind of the tip"

other forumite comes back with: " Of course Spyderco can do no wrong to some of these fanboys here" " No, your knife should never have broken on a napkin. It's got to be a defective heat treat"....

Forumite masters degree paper writer: " How dare you tell customers they can't get a knife looked at under warranty." " Spyderco needs to know when there are problems with their products so they can improve them!"

me: "Huh?"

OP with broken tip: " I feel very picked on" " I just came here with a simple question and got jumped on by all these people who think Spyderco can do no wrong"

Some other poster: "What?"

Next guy: " uh oh, Peanut better and jelly time".....

Etc., Etc,.

And so on.........

Yeah that's very typical of how things usually go. :D

Give a thinly ground knife to a person who knows what they are doing and it's a wonderful thing.

Give one to an idiot and it will be a disaster.

[gaj999]

It seems that the problem can be cured with aggressive hollow-grinding. A shame they aren't as trendy these days.

High-hollow is one of my favorite grinds. But then, I like thin blades too. I need to pry something, there's always a screwdriver, crowbar, flat bar, claw hammer, or something like that around. If there isn't, I go get one.

Gordon

[sal]

As mentioned, we do make a few blades with thinner stock. The Chaparral is another. Most customers tink a folding knife should have a blade with "substantial" thickness. We get much below 2.5mm and demand is less.

Hey Cliff, Anyone with the skill to be a custom maker is being used elsewhere in the factory, like warrantee and repair. There are also many custom makers out there that could modify production knives or even make customs and would like the business.

Sub-contracting a knife like the Para would be very difficult. Anyone good enough to do it is already pretty busy making knives for us.

I'm not opposed to thin blades. If we were to make a short run of a current model, but with a thin (2mm) blade, what would be the preferred model?

sal

[mattman]

I know of two current models that are 2mm, the Centofante 3 and GB Air. but I would love to see a large blade that thin, and maybe a small blade even thinner.

Chaparral is also 2mm.

(Beat to the punch.... curses!)