Has anyone actually worn out a Ti framelock?

[GMArthur]

I've had a Strider SnG in my pocket everyday at work since Apr 2012. I don't have an office job, I wrench on machines in a factory so it gets used and mildly abused every day. I don't think it has worn in at all. Usually about every couple of weeks I get enough crud built up in the knife that the lock bar will start to slip ever so slightly. A shot of WD-40 in the pivot area and a blast of compressed air and it's good to go. This is their new lock face design for what it's worth.

[chuck_roxas45]

So basically what you guys are saying is that it's ok to abuse a framelock because there will be no consquences?

[Parkourdude]

So basically what you guys are saying is that it's ok to abuse a framelock because there will be no consquences?

This is a first...

Maybe they just meant heavy use but not quick, heavy impacts?

[JNewell]

I have a small Sebenza that I think is a 1995 or 1996 knife. A year or two ago (so about a dozen years old) it went past 100% lockup (i.e., developed vertical play. I wouldn't say it was "worn out," though, because I sent it back to Chris Reeve and they fixed it (presumably with a slightly bigger stop pin) and it's ready for another decade or so of use. :)

[Studey]

So basically what you guys are saying is that it's ok to abuse a framelock because there will be no consquences?

Not at all, but frame locks have a pretty good track record of not wearing out and seeing accelerated wear of the lock bar. I carried a small sebenza for five years, and the lock kept its initial engagement. No wear. However, slamming knives open (flicking them) or abusing them is going to cause accelerated wear on any knife, regardless of lock type. I love my Ti frame locks, they are my favorite style of folding knife and have served me well, and I expect them to continue to do so for a long time.

[Parkourdude]

I have a small Sebenza that I think is a 1995 or 1996 knife. A year or two ago (so about a dozen years old) it went past 100% lockup (i.e., developed vertical play. I wouldn't say it was "worn out," though, because I sent it back to Chris Reeve and they fixed it (presumably with a slightly bigger stop pin) and it's ready for another decade or so of use. :)

Could I ask what kind of uses the Sebenza went through? I've never heard of a Sebenza's lock wearing past 100% before.

[knolan]

I was under the impression the lock-bar face on most quality RIL type frame-locks eventually became "wear hardened" through use...thus slowing to a large degree the wear and usually stopping 50/80% on the blade tang, preventing the lock-bar from completely moving to the opposite scale?

My frame lock knives are all fairly new so I haven't experienced any movement in my knives, but remember others comments re: wear hardening in other threads/forums...

[Sequimite]

Here's a Sebenza which I received on a pass-around that developed vertical blade play:

[chuck_roxas45]

Not at all, but frame locks have a pretty good track record of not wearing out and seeing accelerated wear of the lock bar. I carried a small sebenza for five years, and the lock kept its initial engagement. No wear. However, slamming knives open (flicking them) or abusing them is going to cause accelerated wear on any knife, regardless of lock type. I love my Ti frame locks, they are my favorite style of folding knife and have served me well, and I expect them to continue to do so for a long time.

This was what I said but people kept relating anecdotes where their abused knives haven't any wear.

[Studey]

This was what I said but people kept relating anecdotes where their abused knives haven't any wear.

Gotcha.

I was under the impression the lock-bar face on most quality RIL type frame-locks eventually became "wear hardened" through use...thus slowing to a large degree the wear and usually stopping 50/80% on the blade tang, preventing the lock-bar from completely moving to the opposite scale?

My frame lock knives are all fairly new so I haven't experienced any movement in my knives, but remember others comments re: wear hardening in other threads/forums...

Knolan,

I've never heard of a Ti framelock 'wear hardening'. There are methods used to retard the wear on the lockbar, but they involve heating the face of the lockbar or carbidizing the lock face.

[JNewell]

Could I ask what kind of uses the Sebenza went through? I've never heard of a Sebenza's lock wearing past 100% before.

Just a dozen years of opening and closing and cutting. No wrist-flicking, no battoning or chopping. I guess it would be more accurate to say that it went to 100% engagement and then developed rotational lockplay, if that sounds more accurate.

[JNewell]

Here's a Sebenza which I received on a pass-around that developed vertical blade play:

I had that Sebenza for a bit. First, that's an old-ish knife, though I don't remember how old. Second, it suffers from the fact that since nobody owns it, everyone feels free to really abuse it. I thought its condition was actually an endorsement of the quality of the design and materials. :)

[knolan]

Studey: I'm certainly no expert, and am familiar with carbidizing or adding a steel insert but hadn't heard of the "wear hardening" process either until I was doing some research before buying my first Ti frame lock folder(s) and saw several posts on various forums that sometimes mentioned it. I also saw this rather long thread on Blade Forums a few mos ago and many good points were made that seemed plausible to me. Especially the points made about tolerances and precise angles during the design that are key to longevity...interesting reading...FYI...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... e-Ti/page3

[Senate]

There are methods used to retard the wear on the lockbar, but they involve heating the face of the lockbar or carbidizing the lock face.

CRK uses the heating the face of the lockbar method as it can be seen in the movie "the Exquisite Blade".

[Sequimite]

I had that Sebenza for a bit. First, that's an old-ish knife, though I don't remember how old. Second, it suffers from the fact that since nobody owns it, everyone feels free to really abuse it. I thought its condition was actually an endorsement of the quality of the design and materials. :)

Definitely. Furthermore it has been recently refinished; that's why the exterior doesn't look abused.

I'm not criticizing Sebenzas, just answering a question that was asked.

[salimoneus]

If anyone thinks that continuously flicking open their knife is not going to cause accelerated wear, regardless of materials or manufacturer, then they are in dreamland. "Wear hardened" or not, the parts are going to prematurely wear. The fact is a lock mechanism is capable of a limited number of operations before blade play is introduced and/or lock failure. By operating it unnecessarily several dozen times per day you are probably only going to get one tenth the lifespan out of your lock, whether you want to believe it or not.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting anyone stop the continuous flicking, some people just can't help it or really enjoy doing it. I have no problem with this, it's your knife you paid for it, do what you want with it of course. But if you ask me this continuous flicking thing is most likely due to an underlying OCD disorder, but that's another topic entirely.

[O,just,O]

You could look upon a worn Ti frame lock as a blessing because you could now fit it with the steel insert for a lock face. Like the M4 Military has.
O.

[Parkourdude]

Just a dozen years of opening and closing and cutting. No wrist-flicking, no battoning or chopping. I guess it would be more accurate to say that it went to 100% engagement and then developed rotational lockplay, if that sounds more accurate.

I guess "your mileage may vary" really applies here huh?

I've heard of Sebenza's going strong for 16 years and still locking up solid. Then we have your story with bladeplay after 12 years.

[JNewell]

I guess "your mileage may vary" really applies here huh?

I've heard of Sebenza's going strong for 16 years and still locking up solid. Then we have your story with bladeplay after 12 years.

I am not understanding your point. Are you telling me that you don't believe what I'm saying, or that you don't understand it? :rolleyes: You might take a look at post 28 in this thread for another Sebenza that developed vertical play. It happens, and it's not YMMV.

[Cliff Stamp]

In regards to wearing them out, as a bit of a history lesson :

In the late 90's early 2000's there was a long running argument on if it was abusive to gravity open knives which had manual opening devices (studs / holes). The entire reason for the argument came because certain users who liked to flick open knives reported blade play very quickly (often in weeks) on very high end knives, including Sebenza's.

Many makers did respond to this claiming it was abusive to flick open knives because it made the mating surfaces contact in a way they were not intended to and thus it abused the knife. A number of other makers/manufacturers took this as an opportunity to promote themselves as making "better" knives by saying it was not abusive to them and in fact encouraged flicking, Darrel Ralph for example was one and made large folders with double thumb studs which served as stop pins.

In short yes, lots of people wore out integrals to the point they had excessive travel and slop (and at the point they are insecure in use).

Integrals tends to be more prone to this problem than liners in some kinds of use because in tight grips you can actually mash the linear sideways and grind it across the tang of the blade. This and other reasons are why makers and manufacturers evolved the design by using secondary stop points, steel face inserts and altering the geometry of the mating surfaces.