I'm going to wait til a few more places post their pricing info, before I decide if it is too expensive. No reason to get all worked up about it until this is verified. I expect that this is an error of some sort, it just doesn't seem to be that different from the 2...greenewk wrote:Yeah, I can imagine that the intricate machining of all that Ti is pretty darn expensive, but even if they dropped the price $100 this one just isn't doing it for me... Really, I'm a little surprised that they're making it -- I'm assuming this will be produced in pretty limited quantities; justified or not, I just can't see too many of these moving.
Chaparral 3
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Michael Janich
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- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Longmont, CO USA
- Contact:
To all:
Thank you all very much for your discussion of the Chaparral III and the apparent pricing error. To avoid any misunderstandings or speculation, I thought it would be a good idea for me to provide some official insights from the Spyderco perspective.
First of all, the MSRP, as listed, is correct: $564.95. Yes, it's expensive.
To understand the high price of the knife, it's important to consider the objective of the Chaparral series, Spyderco's goals with regard to our Taiwanese factory, and the broad scope of the knife market.
The Chaparral series is named after the Chaparral, a plant native to the Western U.S. that is known for its ability to regenerate after harsh weather conditions and even wildfires. Similar in concept to our Sage series, which pays tribute to innovative knife designers and makers by rendering the same basic knife with different lock mechanisms, the Chaparral series uses a standard design format to highlight distinctive handle materials and texture patterns. The basic format is that of a thin, exceptionally well crafted gentleman's pocket knife with a back lock mechanism. Using this basic format as a canvas, the concept is to embellish it with high-grade, meticulously machined handle scales that push the envelope of quality and sophistication.
Although there are still many misconceptions and "knee-jerk" reactions regarding Spyderco's Taiwanese factory, the facts are actually pretty simple. Taiwan, as a manufacturing community, is very technologically advanced and has developed a number of proprietary processes that clearly define them as world leaders in many areas. For example, their injection-mold tooling and precision blanking methods are exceptional. The very best Taiwanese factories--like the one we use--are capable of craftsmanship, fit, and finish every bit as good as US factories. That's why Spyderco makes the extra effort and investment to send premium US-made steel and other US-made raw materials to our Taiwanese factory for use in the knives we have made there. The quality of the workmanship justifies the additional investment. Unfortunately, that investment also has a significant impact on the retail price of the product.
With regard to the Chaparral III, like its predecessors in the series, it features premium US-made CTS XHP blade steel. Like the Chaparral II, it also features solid 6AL-4V titanium scales. What makes it different, however, is the machining pattern of its scales. Developed exclusively by our Taiwanese factory, this pattern features an extremely intricate series of "steps." Every cut is a perfectly straight line, but collectively the multiple steps create a detailed geometric pattern that provides the illusion of curves. When you see it up close, it's fascinating and clearly an amazing achievement in machining. Unfortunately, that achievement also comes at a price.
The price of machined parts is based primarily on the cost of the raw material itself and the amount of "machine time" required to complete all the processes necessary to yield a finished part. As the saying goes, "time is money," so long, meticulously detailed machining processes result in expensive parts. And that's the primary reason for the high price of the Chaparral III and the difference in price between it and the less detailed machining on the Chaparral II.
Why would Spyderco choose to produce a knife like this? Mostly because it fits the stated theme of the Chaparral series--to push the envelope of materials and craftsmanship in the expression of a gentleman's folding knife. The project also exists because, per Spyderco's unique methodology, we showed prototypes of the Chaparral III to hundreds of customers at meets and shows. Their feedback on the design was overwhelmingly positive and they expressed a strong interest in seeing Spyderco explore the realm of "investment quality" knives. Based on that interest and feedback and our desire to push the envelope, we pursued the project.
I hope this explanation helps you understand the reasons for the Chaparral III's high MSRP. Please also understand that, by design, it's not a knife intended for everyone. We know that. Like any other item that goes beyond simple, basic function, it's a pride-of-ownership piece and the decision to purchase it will be a very subjective, personal one.
If you want to tell time or cut something, buy a G-Shock or Delica. If you want to tell time or cut something in high style and make a serious fashion statement in the process, get a Rolex or a Chaparral III.
Thank you for your understanding and continued interest in our products. Thank you also for respecting our right to occasionally push the limits of artistic expression with our creations.
Stay safe,
Mike
Thank you all very much for your discussion of the Chaparral III and the apparent pricing error. To avoid any misunderstandings or speculation, I thought it would be a good idea for me to provide some official insights from the Spyderco perspective.
First of all, the MSRP, as listed, is correct: $564.95. Yes, it's expensive.
To understand the high price of the knife, it's important to consider the objective of the Chaparral series, Spyderco's goals with regard to our Taiwanese factory, and the broad scope of the knife market.
The Chaparral series is named after the Chaparral, a plant native to the Western U.S. that is known for its ability to regenerate after harsh weather conditions and even wildfires. Similar in concept to our Sage series, which pays tribute to innovative knife designers and makers by rendering the same basic knife with different lock mechanisms, the Chaparral series uses a standard design format to highlight distinctive handle materials and texture patterns. The basic format is that of a thin, exceptionally well crafted gentleman's pocket knife with a back lock mechanism. Using this basic format as a canvas, the concept is to embellish it with high-grade, meticulously machined handle scales that push the envelope of quality and sophistication.
Although there are still many misconceptions and "knee-jerk" reactions regarding Spyderco's Taiwanese factory, the facts are actually pretty simple. Taiwan, as a manufacturing community, is very technologically advanced and has developed a number of proprietary processes that clearly define them as world leaders in many areas. For example, their injection-mold tooling and precision blanking methods are exceptional. The very best Taiwanese factories--like the one we use--are capable of craftsmanship, fit, and finish every bit as good as US factories. That's why Spyderco makes the extra effort and investment to send premium US-made steel and other US-made raw materials to our Taiwanese factory for use in the knives we have made there. The quality of the workmanship justifies the additional investment. Unfortunately, that investment also has a significant impact on the retail price of the product.
With regard to the Chaparral III, like its predecessors in the series, it features premium US-made CTS XHP blade steel. Like the Chaparral II, it also features solid 6AL-4V titanium scales. What makes it different, however, is the machining pattern of its scales. Developed exclusively by our Taiwanese factory, this pattern features an extremely intricate series of "steps." Every cut is a perfectly straight line, but collectively the multiple steps create a detailed geometric pattern that provides the illusion of curves. When you see it up close, it's fascinating and clearly an amazing achievement in machining. Unfortunately, that achievement also comes at a price.
The price of machined parts is based primarily on the cost of the raw material itself and the amount of "machine time" required to complete all the processes necessary to yield a finished part. As the saying goes, "time is money," so long, meticulously detailed machining processes result in expensive parts. And that's the primary reason for the high price of the Chaparral III and the difference in price between it and the less detailed machining on the Chaparral II.
Why would Spyderco choose to produce a knife like this? Mostly because it fits the stated theme of the Chaparral series--to push the envelope of materials and craftsmanship in the expression of a gentleman's folding knife. The project also exists because, per Spyderco's unique methodology, we showed prototypes of the Chaparral III to hundreds of customers at meets and shows. Their feedback on the design was overwhelmingly positive and they expressed a strong interest in seeing Spyderco explore the realm of "investment quality" knives. Based on that interest and feedback and our desire to push the envelope, we pursued the project.
I hope this explanation helps you understand the reasons for the Chaparral III's high MSRP. Please also understand that, by design, it's not a knife intended for everyone. We know that. Like any other item that goes beyond simple, basic function, it's a pride-of-ownership piece and the decision to purchase it will be a very subjective, personal one.
If you want to tell time or cut something, buy a G-Shock or Delica. If you want to tell time or cut something in high style and make a serious fashion statement in the process, get a Rolex or a Chaparral III.
Thank you for your understanding and continued interest in our products. Thank you also for respecting our right to occasionally push the limits of artistic expression with our creations.
Stay safe,
Mike
Michael Janich
Spyderco Special Projects Coordinator
Founder and Lead Instructor, Martial Blade Concepts
Spyderco Special Projects Coordinator
Founder and Lead Instructor, Martial Blade Concepts
There are many other production knives out there with a similar or greater price tag. I say Bravo Spyderco for challenging us with all aspects of owning your products. :D
Orange Dodo, Jason Breeden Rescue, PM 2 Digi Cam & all black, Delica 4 FRN Green & Purple, Manix 2 Lightweight Blue, Yojimbo 2, Native 5 Moonglow, Sage 1
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Cheddarnut
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- Posts: 1393
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:14 am
- Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Call me crazy but i feel like what makes specific spyderco models collectable is their functionality, not their embellishments. Trying to predetermine collectibility is contrary to what i see as spydercos mission statement, which is to produce functionally desireable tools that are beautiful because they work.
"...is cabbage a better blue than cars that sing?" C.S.
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CarbonFiberNut
- Member
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:40 pm
I dunno, are the Damascus runs of the Delica, Endura, Caly 3, and upcoming Stretch functionally superior to any other versions? Do the metal bolsters count as embellishments? This is one version of a knife that was always intended to be a series with the primary differences being cosmetic / materials.Cheddarnut wrote:Call me crazy but i feel like what makes specific spyderco models collectable is their functionality, not their embellishments. Trying to predetermine collectibility is contrary to what i see as spydercos mission statement, which is to produce functionally desireable tools that are beautiful because they work.
If Spyderco wants to make production knives with prices this high primarily for a cool aesthetic, good on 'em - I sure as heck won't be buying, but there are lots of knives I wouldn't buy.
◊ Manix 2 XL ◊ Manix 2 lightweight blue ◊ Caly 3 carbon fiber ◊ Caly 3 damascus / CF ◊ Lum Chinese Nishijin ◊ Sage 1 ◊ Superleaf
◊ Dragonfly FRN serrated ◊ Endura Gen 1 ◊ Rescue Gen 1 ◊ Endura 4 FFG ◊ Delica 4 half serrated ◊ Mule Team ◊ Spin ◊ Bushcraft UK
◊ S110V Forum Native 5 ◊ Black Nishijin Cricket
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Top 5 most wanted: Domino, Dice, CF Para-2, CF Cricket. Seeing a theme here?
◊ Dragonfly FRN serrated ◊ Endura Gen 1 ◊ Rescue Gen 1 ◊ Endura 4 FFG ◊ Delica 4 half serrated ◊ Mule Team ◊ Spin ◊ Bushcraft UK
◊ S110V Forum Native 5 ◊ Black Nishijin Cricket
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Top 5 most wanted: Domino, Dice, CF Para-2, CF Cricket. Seeing a theme here?
It will be interesting to see how the release of the Chaparral 3 will affect the future of the series.
If it comes out and it sells poorly, I imagine the line will gravitate to lower costing scales.
If it comes out and sells well, I imagine we will see some very crazy scales in the future.
If it comes out and it sells poorly, I imagine the line will gravitate to lower costing scales.
If it comes out and sells well, I imagine we will see some very crazy scales in the future.
-Brian
A distinguished lurker.
Waiting on a Squeak and Pingo with a Split Spring!
A distinguished lurker.
Waiting on a Squeak and Pingo with a Split Spring!
I agree, but, I also don't mind this "endeavor", I feel that it is following the stated intent of the series, and if it takes that much machine time to create, then it is what it is...Cheddarnut wrote:Call me crazy but i feel like what makes specific spyderco models collectable is their functionality, not their embellishments. Trying to predetermine collectibility is contrary to what i see as spydercos mission statement, which is to produce functionally desireable tools that are beautiful because they work.
Spyderco and crew haven't given me any reason to doubt their methodology, so, I will likely continue to purchase and enjoy this line, until they make me really think they've stumbled (which I think will be unlikely).
This is a significant price point, definitly not what we've grown accustomed to, but, based on Mikes explanation, I'll reserve final judgement til Titanium is in hand.
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Cheddarnut
- Member
- Posts: 1393
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:14 am
- Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I cant say how those versions stack up functionally, but i can say based on aftermarket trends it seems that steel variations garner the most attention, and i relate steel type to performance. This is all conjecture as i have no idea what actually sells, but it seems to me its quite a bit easier to find a damascus delica/endura than any sprint/dealer exclusive of the para 2, as an example.CarbonFiberNut wrote:I dunno, are the Damascus runs of the Delica, Endura, Caly 3, and upcoming Stretch functionally superior to any other versions? Do the metal bolsters count as embellishments? This is one version of a knife that was always intended to be a series with the primary differences being cosmetic / materials.
If Spyderco wants to make production knives with prices this high primarily for a cool aesthetic, good on 'em - I sure as heck won't be buying, but there are lots of knives I wouldn't buy.
"...is cabbage a better blue than cars that sing?" C.S.
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CarbonFiberNut
- Member
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:40 pm
The damascus is a sandwich with VG-10. It makes essentially no difference in terms of performance. It's purely for aesthetics and commands a hefty price premium. In that sense, this knife is really not much of a departure from previous high-end aesthetically focused knives Spyderco has released - other than the new benchmark in terms of price.Cheddarnut wrote:I cant say how those versions stack up functionally, but i can say based on aftermarket trends it seems that steel variations garner the most attention, and i relate steel type to performance.
◊ Manix 2 XL ◊ Manix 2 lightweight blue ◊ Caly 3 carbon fiber ◊ Caly 3 damascus / CF ◊ Lum Chinese Nishijin ◊ Sage 1 ◊ Superleaf
◊ Dragonfly FRN serrated ◊ Endura Gen 1 ◊ Rescue Gen 1 ◊ Endura 4 FFG ◊ Delica 4 half serrated ◊ Mule Team ◊ Spin ◊ Bushcraft UK
◊ S110V Forum Native 5 ◊ Black Nishijin Cricket
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Top 5 most wanted: Domino, Dice, CF Para-2, CF Cricket. Seeing a theme here?
◊ Dragonfly FRN serrated ◊ Endura Gen 1 ◊ Rescue Gen 1 ◊ Endura 4 FFG ◊ Delica 4 half serrated ◊ Mule Team ◊ Spin ◊ Bushcraft UK
◊ S110V Forum Native 5 ◊ Black Nishijin Cricket
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Top 5 most wanted: Domino, Dice, CF Para-2, CF Cricket. Seeing a theme here?
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jabba359
- Member
- Posts: 4958
- Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:07 pm
- Location: North Hollywood, CA U.S.A. Earth
- Contact:
While I'd love to own one, the price is too high for my blood. I'm guessing that Spyderco knows that the price will severely limit interest and plans on producing limited numbers accordingly. Sal had talked a little while back about maybe doing a Chaparral in Mammoth Tooth and Devin Thomas Damascus. If you think this one is expensive, just wait for that one to [possibly] drop! Unless I stumble upon a small fortune in the near future, I'll just have to admire the Chap 3 from afar.
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Cheddarnut
- Member
- Posts: 1393
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:14 am
- Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I agree that this is in line with other 'high end' spydercos released with emphasis on aesthetics, what i was focused on suggesting was that creating subjective values (looks) that carry costs instead of empirically tangible values (steels, functionality of design etc) wasnt what i believe has been spydercos attraction thus far. That said, their true strength, like Leo Fender, is listening to what the user wants, and if there is a growing trend towards knives that 'look nice' (this is subjective) that have premiums attached to them for that reason, then its likely because there is a demand for it and i'll just shut my mouth :)CarbonFiberNut wrote:The damascus is a sandwich with VG-10. It makes essentially no difference in terms of performance. It's purely for aesthetics and commands a hefty price premium. In that sense, this knife is really not much of a departure from previous high-end aesthetically focused knives Spyderco has released - other than the new benchmark in terms of price.
"...is cabbage a better blue than cars that sing?" C.S.
While what you said is true, I think Spy are not really looking forward to selling these in huge quantities...like Mr. Janich said, they did it to realize their artistic creation and good on 'em...it really takes b***s to put out a knife costing north of $350.Donut wrote:It will be interesting to see how the release of the Chaparral 3 will affect the future of the series.
If it comes out and it sells poorly, I imagine the line will gravitate to lower costing scales.
If it comes out and sells well, I imagine we will see some very crazy scales in the future.
If Spy cared about price they would have priced it accordingly (I say this because the forum N5 is at a somewhat decent price).
Regardless of how this knife sells, Spys vision for the Chap 4 will be the same. I'm only a tad disappointed the C3 takes to the C2 in some way with regard to the design.
Domino, Cricket, Spin, Lava, Dragonfly Orange, Szabo, Chaparral 3...Dear Lord Spyderco how do I afford all these knives? Your innovation is off the charts!!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Life is short, so buy knives while you can!:D
:spyder: Chaparral CF, Sage 1,Delica 4, Black Caly Jr ZDP (2x), Black Caly Jr. Spyderedge, Burgundy Caly Jr, Gray Caly Jr, Air, Native 5 Ti, Native 5 Forum 2013, Smallfly :spyder:
Life is short, so buy knives while you can!:D
:spyder: Chaparral CF, Sage 1,Delica 4, Black Caly Jr ZDP (2x), Black Caly Jr. Spyderedge, Burgundy Caly Jr, Gray Caly Jr, Air, Native 5 Ti, Native 5 Forum 2013, Smallfly :spyder:
I'm of the belief that this is a sign of things to come. I feel that more & more Spydies are going to be priced similarly as time goes on. Tip of the iceberg, so to speak.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] <--- My Spydies <click the dancing banana!>
I think most of the sticker shock came from the apparent similarity to the Chaparral 2. If it were mammoth ivory, it would be easier to immediately understand. I personally would like to see more variety in materials (along the lines of the Sage series so far), but I'm sure the Chap 3 will be very nice.
Thanks for clearing the air Michael. I hope it sells well, but i cant see people justifying the price when it is so similar to the chaparral2. I may have ready your post wrong, but it left me with the impression that the chaparral series is more about the design on the handle rather then the handle materials. Could you clairify this please? im really hoping the handle material will begin to change with each new knife
-Spencer
Rotation:
Gayle Bradley 2 | Mantra 1 | Watu | Chaparral 1 | Dragonfly 2 Salt SE
Rotation:
Gayle Bradley 2 | Mantra 1 | Watu | Chaparral 1 | Dragonfly 2 Salt SE
I agree with Holland. To me, it sounds like the Chaparral series is going to be the same titanium handles with just different etchings and patterns, as opposed to different handle materials, which is how it was described in the past.Holland wrote:Thanks for clearing the air Michael. I hope it sells well, but i cant see people justifying the price when it is so similar to the chaparral2. I may have ready your post wrong, but it left me with the impression that the chaparral series is more about the design on the handle rather then the handle materials. Could you clairify this please? im really hoping the handle material will begin to change with each new knife
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] <--- My Spydies <click the dancing banana!>